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re: Who/when decided that that play had to be overturned?
Posted on 5/25/24 at 5:34 pm to lostinbr
Posted on 5/25/24 at 5:34 pm to lostinbr
quote:
.. it’s single-elimination
fixed, i got my brain mixed up with the girls
but it sure felt like someone made a phone call for refs to help us lose
This post was edited on 5/25/24 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 5/25/24 at 5:40 pm to lctiger
Three facts—1) The catcher did not touch the plate or step in front of the plate before he caught the ball 2) The runner stopped completely before he got to the plate and made no attempt to score.Thus, it was officially a rundown, so catcher left the plate and tagged the runner 3) Even if a ball is called, the runner still has to touch home plate or the run does not count. He never touched home plate! Been coaching baseball for a lot of years and umpired a lot of games. Those are the rules of the game! Thank you!!!
Posted on 5/25/24 at 5:43 pm to lostinbr
Chill bro, all I said was I never saw it. It was never in the original broadcast.
But the catcher has already made the tag turned and it looks like got rid of the ball…and runner nowhere in the picture…so it wasn’t immediate which is the whole point
But the catcher has already made the tag turned and it looks like got rid of the ball…and runner nowhere in the picture…so it wasn’t immediate which is the whole point
Posted on 5/25/24 at 5:48 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
It was immediate. Neal tagged him, turned around and showed the ump the ball, ump steps toward mound and starts to raise his hand to signal out in a very routine way. That pick is taken just after Neal casually rolled ball toward pitchers mound. The play was totally a routine out for that ump and he never considered calling a balk.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:02 pm to TackySweater
I kept asking the same thing....... WHO wanted that reviewed. I bet lots of tigers wanna know.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:04 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
The SC batter bailed out of the box so catcher didn't interfere with him at all for sure.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:07 pm to lctiger

This post was edited on 5/25/24 at 6:09 pm
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:08 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
All good…thread doesn’t need to be us arguing this
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:15 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
The ump made the call and he is still in foul territory. Less than 3 seconds after the play. The Cocks coach got him to change his call.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:17 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
quote:
Chill bro, all I said was I never saw it. It was never in the original broadcast.
But the catcher has already made the tag turned and it looks like got rid of the ball…and runner nowhere in the picture…so it wasn’t immediate which is the whole point
You said multiple times that the ump never called him out, when they replayed him signaling out at least 10-15 times. You are now saying it wasn’t “immediate” when it was. The runner was still in the shot on TV. I just snapped a pic with my phone because I have no way to screenshot from my DVR. Had I known y’all were gonna move the goalposts, I guess I would have made sure to get the whole frame.

The time between the tag and the shot I posted of the ump signaling was like 1-2 seconds. About the same as any other tag play. In that shot, Neal has taken like one step toward the dugout after showing the ump the ball.
This post was edited on 5/25/24 at 6:18 pm
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:22 pm to patchesohoulihan_007
So a still shot of Neal showing ump the ball as ump steps toward mound and starts to signal out. Now that you’ve been shown pictures of the umpire signaling out after emphatically denying that he did, I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Are you trying to imply the ump called a balk? Are you trying to imply he was unsure of his call. What I see is a play that was so routine and an obvious out that the umpire was matter of fact and casual with his call. Which as you’ve been shown with pictures, his call was out.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:29 pm to lostinbr

Well, there it is. Officially the whole thing is bullshite if the ump signaled out and the either
1) heard another field umpires view/judgement (how the frick would the be able to see maybe Neal’s toe being a millimeter in front of the plate or
2) he replayed it in his head after the SC coach complained and he overturned his won judgment call minutes after the play which is completely asinine
Umps deserve to be roasted
This post was edited on 5/25/24 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:32 pm to TackySweater
quote:
Nobody is talking about this part of it. Announcers just kept talking about the rule and it being applied right. But why was it even up for discussion to begin with?
Three pages later and we still don't know. I wasn't watching the game live. I turned it on w/ Travinski standing on 1st. After the game was over, I looked at a number of replays of the play at home, but none of them go into what lead to the refs meeting up and changing the call. The home plate ump clearly signaled the runner out. So what really happened after that?? Did one of the field umps 90' away or further claim Neal stepped on home? The home ump didn't see him step on home or he would've make the call immediately.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 6:33 pm to TackySweater
quote:the USCe coach said he brought the rule up to the umps. So, he triggered it.
Right. So what triggered them to meet and decide to change it?
Posted on 5/25/24 at 7:33 pm to hashtag
quote:
the USCe coach said he brought the rule up to the umps. So, he triggered it.
If that's what happened, it was a brilliant move by their coach (albeit underhanded) and a really bad move by the officials. How can they let a coach educate them on a rule?? They obviously didn't know the rule or they would've make the call initially. I wonder which official "saw" Neal step on the plate??
Posted on 5/25/24 at 7:33 pm to hashtag
quote:
the USCe coach said he brought the rule up to the umps. So, he triggered it.
That’s certainly what it seems like to me.
From what I understand reading the baseball rule book, a coach or another umpire can request a conference from the umpires to discuss a potential misapplication of rules. So if there’s a call made on the field and the ump gets the outcome wrong - for example, awarding a base when the runner should have returned, or something along those lines - the umps can huddle up, check the rules, and correct the call on the field without video review.
However, judgement calls can only be overturned under certain circumstances:
1. Another umpire is 100% certain that they have additional information that the calling umpire did not have, and brings that information to the calling umpire. This is limited to specific calls such as fair/foul, catch/no catch, a bobble on a tag, etc. and these specific circumstances are listed in the rule book. This play does not fall into any of those circumstances.
2. The play is overturned on video review. This play is specifically not eligible for video review as the list of reviewable plays includes “catcher’s interference with the batter’s swing except on a squeeze play or steal of home.”
There is also a note in the section of the rule book about umpire conferences that states the following:
quote:
f. Judgement calls, which have traditionally not been subject to reversal, include steal and other tag plays (except if the ball is dropped without the umpire’s knowledge, as discussed above); force plays (when the ball is not dropped and the foot is not pulled); balls and strikes (other than check swings). This practice shall continue. Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems.
Note that this isn’t even talking about video review, it’s talking about reversal based on information from other umpires.
So I don’t really understand how it could have been reversed on the field. The plate umpire made a spot determination that catcher’s interference did not occur. I don’t see how anyone else could have been in a better position to determine that. SC’s coach can’t challenge it. The line about “judgement calls” from the officials should have applied to the plate ump’s original decision to call the runner out.
It only makes sense if the reason they “misapplied” the rule was that the plate ump didn’t know what catcher’s interference was in the first place (since he didn’t call it on the field).
Posted on 5/25/24 at 7:41 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems.
Apparently the umps stopped reading before they got to this sentence.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 8:12 pm to lctiger
quote:
So a still shot of Neal showing ump the ball as ump steps toward mound and starts to signal out. Now that you’ve been shown pictures of the umpire signaling out after emphatically denying that he did, I’m not really sure where you are going with this. Are you trying to imply the ump called a balk? Are you trying to imply he was unsure of his call. What I see is a play that was so routine and an obvious out that the umpire was matter of fact and casual with his call. Which as you’ve been shown with pictures, his call was out.
I didn’t emphatically say anything. I said I didn’t see him called out on the broadcast..as you quoted in your earlier post.
The picture shows after the tag is made. The players separate. The catcher turns and shows the ball and still the ump isn’t yet moving to put his hands up. You need to check Websters definition of immediate again…bc you used it improperly.
Go back and watch in real-time it isn’t until almost 4 minutes into the ump pow wow that they show a shot of him calling the runner out. The picture is after the tag and turn to show that you’re wrong the ump didn’t “immediately” call anything.
I quit responding to you bc it’s stupid to have 8 posts about who saw what. I wasn’t arguing with you at any point, just stating what I saw…not sure if you’re trying to say I didn’t see that or what but have a rewatch of the action in real-time buddy. Done responding to you now.
Lord have mercy on your wife.
Posted on 5/25/24 at 8:52 pm to TackySweater
SC coach brought it to the ump's attention.
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