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re: The top seeds in the CFP will rightfully complain about not getting a home game.

Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:51 pm to
Posted by Pikes Peak Tiger
Colorado Springs
Member since Jun 2023
4218 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

Conference championship games are gonna go away. They should but they are cash cows, especially the SECCG


The problem with losing CCGs is the play playoff will give auto bids to the 6 highest ranked conference champions.

What if 3 SEC teams finish 11-1 and there is no CCG. Are we going to really on obscure tiebreakers to decide the champion?
Posted by Curtis Lowe
Member since Dec 2019
1327 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:05 pm to
quote:

The NCAA is stupidly trying to hang on to this antiquated and obsolete “bowl system.” Trash it completely. The playoffs should be at the home of the higher seed every round until the championship game, just like FCS and the NFL. The playoff will soon expand to 16 teams but that’s another subject.


The Bowls are independent of the NCAA. As a matter of fact, each Bowl is put on by a different independent organization that are community organized, non-profit and proceeds from the games are distributed to charitable organizations within the community. It is up to the committee running a Bowl to decide if they would like to bid on being a hosting site of a CFP game.

As long as there are civic minded local business people that want to showcase their city and promote tourism to their city, Bowls will continue to exist.

As to your asinine assertion to completely trash them, 2 points:

1. Just imagine the Holiday season without the football games on everyday. Yeah, more time to spend talking to family.

2. Yeah, let's remove another element of the pageantry of college football and make it even more like the NFL.



Posted by Pikes Peak Tiger
Colorado Springs
Member since Jun 2023
4218 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

Just imagine the Holiday season without the football games on everyday. Yeah, more time to spend talking to family.


The horror.
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
40231 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:01 pm to
quote:

Why are lower seeded teams rewarded with something the top seeds aren’t?

They are welcome to switch. Give the bye to the lower seed and play an extra game at home.
Posted by SUB
Member since Jan 2001
Member since Jan 2009
21089 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 9:10 pm to
quote:

It’s even worse than that. To get the bye you will have to win a CCG. So you have to plan an extra game at a neutral site to get a bye, while some team will sit home and rest and get a home playoff game


That is an excellent point.
Posted by Pelican fan99
Lafayette, Louisiana
Member since Jun 2013
35136 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 10:14 pm to
quote:

Tulane hosts Texas
Toledo hosts Ohio St
UNLV hosts Washington
Troy hosts Alabama

These schools have zero business hosting a playoff game. Most of those first round games would be complete garbage
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 10:15 pm
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20582 posts
Posted on 11/29/23 at 11:27 pm to
quote:

Because the higher seeds are rewarded with not having to play a game. You think a team would rather play an extra home game over getting a bye week?


Actually, they might.

Conference championships are played about 3 weeks before the playoffs start, give or take.

Would you rather:
a) take an extra week off before the playoffs, then get a home game against (arguably) a more beatable opponent to get things started,
or
b) start the playoffs in the second round, against a team coming off a win in the playoffs?

Either way, you're coming off a pretty long stretch of not playing, and jumping into a "win or it's over" phase. And these are 18-22 yr olds, not professionals. I think I'd almost prefer to kick things off at home to shake the rust off, and get some good momentum going into the next round. You win, and you'd hit the next game with a lot of confidence, while your opponent hasn't played in awhile.

And if the seeds are such that conference champions don't matter (in which Tulane doesn't get the home field for winning the AAC, for example), that's a good chance you might get your younger guys in late, with a comfortable lead. That would certainly be better than just practicing that week.
Posted by timlan2057
In the Shadow of Tiger Stadium
Member since Sep 2005
17079 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 4:12 am to
quote:

They are welcome to switch. Give the bye to the lower seed and play an extra game at home.


Or why not give the bye AND a home game to the top seed? The higher seeded play-in team still gets a home game in the play-in round, just like the higher seeded NFL wild card team doesn’t get the bye, but a home game.

You and “Curtis Lowe” are spewing the same bullshite and illustrating the futility of defending college football going to a 12 team playoff and trying to combine it with the “bowl system.”
Posted by timlan2057
In the Shadow of Tiger Stadium
Member since Sep 2005
17079 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 4:20 am to
quote:

The Bowls are independent of the NCAA. As a matter of fact, each Bowl is put on by a different independent organization that are community organized, non-profit and proceeds from the games are distributed to charitable organizations within the community. It is up to the committee running a Bowl to decide if they would like to bid on being a hosting site of a CFP game. As long as there are civic minded local business people that want to showcase their city and promote tourism to their city, Bowls will continue to exist. As to your asinine assertion to completely trash them, 2 points: 1. Just imagine the Holiday season without the football games on everyday. Yeah, more time to spend talking to family. 2. Yeah, let's remove another element of the pageantry of college football and make it even more like the NFL.


I saved you the trouble of typing this dumbshit post since I dealt with it in a previous post which you obviously didn’t read.

If these organizations want to put on the Poulan Weedeater Bowl with games that are becoming more meaningless with star players rightfully opting out then let them. The NCAA doesn’t need to support them by making playoff games “bowls.”

If they want to continue this string of meaningless bowls apart from the playoffs, then hell, let them. I suppose it will help you losers who would rather watch Northern Michigan play Miami of Ohio instead of spending time with family.

The point is: we are in the playoff era. A 16 team home-and-home playoff would make the NCAA a helluva lot more TV money than ESPN’s bid on this slew of meaningless bowls. But if they can continue to exist separate and apart from a home-and-home 16 team playoff, all the more power to them.

There. That wasn’t so hard to understand, was it?
This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 4:22 am
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67300 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:02 am to
The 4 team playoff is typically garbage blowouts already
Posted by Curtis Lowe
Member since Dec 2019
1327 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:14 am to
quote:

I saved you the trouble of typing this dumb shite post since I dealt with it in a previous post which you obviously didn’t read.



If you did address these points in a prior post you must have deleted same, because all I see is you spouting off gross inaccuracies. You are operating on a very flawed understanding of the CFP, the bowls, etc.

The NCAA has nothing to do with the Bowl games nor does it have anything to do the the CFP. The CFP Foundation administers the College Football Playoffs. The CFP Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization that is an entity unto itself, sets its own rules and procedures and negotiates the media rights for broadcasting the playoff games. The CFP works in conjunction and partnership with various bowl organizations to stage the playoffs, the NCAA is not involved in this process nor does the NCAA profit from same.

The Board of Directors that oversee the CFP is comprised of the Commissioners of the major conferences and the Notre Dame AD. The CFP also employs an Executive Staff.

The NCAA does not support any bowl as you erroneously claim. Each bowl organization negotiates its own media rights with the various networks. Payment for the the right to broadcast a bowl is received by the Bowl Organization from the Network. This is the major source of income for each of the numerous bowl organizations (along with ticket sales, merchandise, etc.), out of which expenses are paid, including but not limited to: printing, merchandise, hosted functions, venue rental, stadium rental, bowl participation fees, a vast armada of rental cars, insurance, etc. The bowl organization pays a fee (bowl payout) for the teams to participate.

quote:

If these organizations want to put on the Poulan Weedeater Bowl with games that are becoming more meaningless with star players rightfully opting out then let them.


while the games may be meaningless to you, they are vital to many. I had the pleasure of serving two five year terms on the Executive Committee of our local bowl organization. In each of these years over $10 million of excess proceeds were distributed to various organizations in our communities. Major recipients of our philanthropy were the Boys and Girls Clubs of the three major cities in the region and a good number of food banks. On occasion money was even provided to augment funding for various programs in the public school system and to assist the funding of a new wing of the Children's Hospital.

And none of this address the economic impact to the region in hotel, restaurant and bar revenue during a slow time in the year.

quote:

The NCAA doesn’t need to support them by making playoff games “bowls.”



The NCAA doesn't support them at all. The CFP and some of the various Bowl Organizations work in partnership.

quote:

The point is: we are in the playoff era. A 16 team home-and-home playoff would make the NCAA a helluva lot more TV money than ESPN’s bid on this slew of meaningless bowls.


The present exclusive media rights deal that the CFP has with ESPN for the playoff games is $470 million a year through 2026 with an expected increase to over $2 billion with the negotiation of a new contract when the present contract expires. Once again the NCAA will not see a dime of this, as they are not a party to these games or negotiations. And this is entirely separate from any media rights deal that bowl organizations not participating with the CFP have for the broadcast of their game.

quote:

If they want to continue this string of meaningless bowls apart from the playoffs, then hell, let them. I suppose it will help you losers who would rather watch Northern Michigan play Miami of Ohio instead of spending time with family.



Rest assured, the bowl games will survive.

As to the the spending time with the family remark, that was a joke.

quote:

There. That wasn’t so hard to understand, was it?


Oh, I fully understand you BS, it is just highly inaccurate and simple-minded and fails to take in the complete picture.

ETA: Link to CFP Fondation website This link address discusses the CFP philanthropic activities dealing with education and the retention of teachers.

The more you know.........
This post was edited on 11/30/23 at 7:24 am
Posted by timlan2057
In the Shadow of Tiger Stadium
Member since Sep 2005
17079 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:49 am to
quote:

I had the pleasure of serving two five year terms on the Executive Committee of our local bowl organization. In


Oh okay. So we know whereof your bread is buttered and why you don't want these meaningless bowls to go away.

quote:

Rest assured, the bowl games will survive.


Sounds like you're whistling Dixie in the graveyard to keep your courage up here. These scads of bowls are becoming more meaningless by the year.

quote:

If you did address these points in a prior post you must have deleted same,


Learn to scroll back in a thread. It's quite easy to do.

*****
Now here's the point and there's no need rehashing all the meaningless palaver you typed. I repeat: you could have saved yourself the trouble, being that none of it deals with the bedrock issue.

Have you ever heard of the logical fallacy "Setting Up A Straw Man"? That's what you are doing here in portraying the argument as to whether all these shite bowls should go away and portraying yourself as the hero in defending them and me the villain argue that they go away.

Now one more time: I'll try to use as many short words as possible to help you along:

WE ARE IN THE PLAYOFF ERA. Top seeds should be awarded home playoff games. It's stupid that lower seeds are rewarded with such. What is preventing this is the NCAA trying to keep the "bowl system" alive when it is now obsolete with a 12, and soon to be 16 (and maybe more) team playoff.

But will you go back and read carefully what I'm arguing? If the obsolete "bowl system" can survive with the playoff system so in part, you can brag about your fancy title, then by all means, that's fine with me. I don't give a shite if it does. But the NCAA or whomever does not need to support it by trying to tie it in to a playoff system. And I think when they see the smashing success of playoff games on campus, in the Big House, Tiger Stadium, etc. then what I'm proposing will happen.

But I'm not arguing the Poulan-Weedeater-Reliaquest-Acme-Toilet Bowls should unconditonally die. I don't give a shite if they survive or not in the playoff era. But they don't need to be tied to what should be home-and-home playoff games up until the national championship game.

Once again, there ... wasn't that easy?



Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
9762 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 7:53 am to
quote:

Would you rather:
a) take an extra week off before the playoffs, then get a home game against (arguably) a more beatable opponent to get things started,
or
b) start the playoffs in the second round, against a team coming off a win in the playoffs?

Statistically, it would make zero sense to take a first round home game over a first round bye.

Let’s say a top-4 team is a 10-point favorite in a hypothetical first round game, a 6-point favorite in the quarterfinals, a 3-point favorite in the semifinals, and a pick ‘em in the finals. That corresponds to win probabilities of roughly 78%, 67%, 58%, and 50% respectively.

So that team’s probability to win the championship would be 0.78x0.67x0.58x0.50 = 15.2%. If you substitute that first game for a bye, the probability goes up to 19.4%.

Another way of looking at it - if the concern was rust in the quarterfinals, you would need to increase the win probability in that game from 67% to 86% in order to offset the net negative of playing an extra game. That means the extra home game would have to take you from a 6-point favorite to a 14.5-point favorite (an 8.5-point swing in the spread) in the quarterfinals for the extra game to be worthwhile.

The point here is just to illustrate that a first-round bye is a major advantage.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59193 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 8:26 am to
quote:

What if 3 SEC teams finish 11-1 and there is no CCG


How will you determine which 2 go to the CCG in your, extremely rare if ever scenario. There’s only been a handful of times, including this year that both had the same conference record. I think this year and 2009 are the only time both were 8-0
Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20582 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 2:03 pm to
quote:

The point here is just to illustrate that a first-round bye is a major advantage.
Afraid I'll have to disagree here.

This season-
right now, you have
UGA, Michigan, Washington, Fla St with byes.

Oregon, Ohio St, Texas, and Alabama hosting;

Tulane, Missouri, Penn State, Ole Miss playing on the road.

Depending on how things play out- you might push Alabama and Oregon into byes and Washington and UGA hosting 1st rd, Texas could jump to a bye, or drop to a road game, Alabama could drop to a road game, Ole Miss could drop out and Oklahoma could slip in.

If my option is:
host Ole Miss, Missouri or Tulane VS play Texas or Bama/UGA/Ohio St at a neutral site AFTER they won the previous week and I didn't play, I would prefer to play and host. If I avoid injuries, I'm coming into the next game with some momentum.

If you try to apply the NFL playoff analogy, it doesn't work- the bye team there plays at home. In college, it's "neutral", but might not really be... Atlanta, New Orleans, and Dallas are SEC-friendly sites *really MOST are*, and if it's Michigan vs an SEC team that isn't favorable.

It's not baseball, you aren't burning pitching arms. The big issue is to avoid a serious injury in the first round.
Posted by TigerLawProf
Member since Aug 2013
156 posts
Posted on 11/30/23 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

east and west sidelines start emptying out in the third quarter of a playoff game.

This phenomenon will persist until someone with more than 2 working synapses addresses the parking and traffic issues.
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