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Message
The Quality of Pitching in College Baseball Today
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:11 pm
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:11 pm
Look, the best high school pitching prospects have always gone pro right after high school. This has not and will not change.
But the vast overall majority of college pitching has deteriorated. Everyone likes to knock on the LSU staff, but this is a national problem and it's getting worse.
I'm not sure it's even a talent issue per se, but I think it's two major issues. I don't know what the NCAA / college game can do to fix either of these, without help, so I'm curious to see what happens in the future.
1) Injuries. Pitching injuries all across the country continue to pile up. Both major TJ required surgeries, and injuries that don't require surgery but take people out for many weeks at a time. This seems to be happening more to younger freshman / sophmore pitching. I think this is very much due to overuse in the younger years, especially high school and travel ball. The pitch count rules in the LHSAA are an absolute joke. MLB starters get more rest than high school / travel ball starters. Secondairly, I think it is a lack of proper training / stretching at the lower levels.
2) Inconsistency. I think a lot more pitchers are arriving on campus with bad form and mechanics, because, similar to #1, high school and travel ball coaching is generally pretty terrible. Good high school pitchers have enough ability to just overpower hitters, but that doesn't work in major college baseball, expect in rare cases. College pitching coaches are basically rebuilding form. When the kids - remember they are still kids - are on the mound and they remember what the college coach taught them, they are good. When they revert back to their old ways... it's a disaster.
There needs to be more of an investment made in high school and travel ball coaching... but since most college baseball programs still lose money... I'm not sure they are in a position to pay for it.
But the vast overall majority of college pitching has deteriorated. Everyone likes to knock on the LSU staff, but this is a national problem and it's getting worse.
I'm not sure it's even a talent issue per se, but I think it's two major issues. I don't know what the NCAA / college game can do to fix either of these, without help, so I'm curious to see what happens in the future.
1) Injuries. Pitching injuries all across the country continue to pile up. Both major TJ required surgeries, and injuries that don't require surgery but take people out for many weeks at a time. This seems to be happening more to younger freshman / sophmore pitching. I think this is very much due to overuse in the younger years, especially high school and travel ball. The pitch count rules in the LHSAA are an absolute joke. MLB starters get more rest than high school / travel ball starters. Secondairly, I think it is a lack of proper training / stretching at the lower levels.
2) Inconsistency. I think a lot more pitchers are arriving on campus with bad form and mechanics, because, similar to #1, high school and travel ball coaching is generally pretty terrible. Good high school pitchers have enough ability to just overpower hitters, but that doesn't work in major college baseball, expect in rare cases. College pitching coaches are basically rebuilding form. When the kids - remember they are still kids - are on the mound and they remember what the college coach taught them, they are good. When they revert back to their old ways... it's a disaster.
There needs to be more of an investment made in high school and travel ball coaching... but since most college baseball programs still lose money... I'm not sure they are in a position to pay for it.
31
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:14 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The pitch count rules in the LHSAA are an absolute joke.
What’s your issue with them?
It’s better that we have them… they didn’t always have them
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:16 pm to chalmetteowl
pitchers need to stop throwing tournament ball year round at the developmental age
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:16 pm to LSUFanHouston
I totally agree , excellent post! 
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:22 pm to LSUFanHouston
If my kid was a college prospect pitching in high school I’d shut him down from non-HS affiliated teams after he got college offers. And I’d tell the HS coach he’s on a serious, hard line pitch count or he’s off the team. And he’d probably do yoga and work with professional trainers on stretching and range of motion.
So I agree.
So I agree.
This post was edited on 5/1/23 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:24 pm to CatfishJohn
quote:
If my kid was a college prospect pitching in high school I’d shut him down from non-HS affiliated teams after he got college offers. And I’d tell the HS coach he’s on a serious, hard line pitch count or he’s off the team. And he’d probably do yoga and work with professional trainers on stretching and range of motion.
would like to think this is said tongue in cheek but on this board I have to believe you are dead serious
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:25 pm to 777Tiger
The new strike zone doesn't help either. I wish they would go back to the old one so we don't have to witness a game with 16 walks.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:26 pm to 777Tiger
The new rules about not contacting a kid until later in high school should theoretically help pitchers arms.
They won't feel pressured to throw in all these showcases too early and can take their arm care a little more serious earlier on since they won't be competing for offers and class spots starting in 8th grade anymore.
They won't feel pressured to throw in all these showcases too early and can take their arm care a little more serious earlier on since they won't be competing for offers and class spots starting in 8th grade anymore.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:34 pm to chalmetteowl
quote:
What’s your issue with them?
115 pitches - 3 days rest.
That's not nearly enough rest. 84 only requires two days rest which is still not enough.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:41 pm to LSUFanHouston
1. The balls and bats have changed to the betterment of the batter.
2. Maybe it’s just my opinion, but it seems like a lot of pitchers are using their college career to get a free tj surgery. Seems like every pitcher needs it now.
2. Maybe it’s just my opinion, but it seems like a lot of pitchers are using their college career to get a free tj surgery. Seems like every pitcher needs it now.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:44 pm to crewdepoo
quote:
Maybe it’s just my opinion, but it seems like a lot of pitchers are using their college career to get a free tj surgery. Seems like every pitcher needs it now.
Is there some sort of benefit to TJ surgery that makes a pitcher better afterwards?
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:45 pm to LSUFanHouston
Mississippi State just fired their pitching coach.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:48 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
115 pitches - 3 days rest.
That's not nearly enough rest. 84 only requires two days rest which is still not enough.
If a kid has a future in baseball, I'd agree, but most kids throwing in LHSAA games aren't going to be playing college ball, so what do you say to them? You can't play as much because once every ten years, we'll have a pitcher with a shot at pro ball?
A similar thing happens in the NCAAT. Opposing fans lose their minds when a team throws the arm off some junk ball reliever but don't acknowledge that his baseball career is over after that run.
For the most part, velocity is what's blowing out the arms. Twenty years ago, it was noteworthy to see a guy throw 95 in college; now, it feels like every team has several of them. Bama had two lefties throwing 96+ this weekend!
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:54 pm to LSUFanHouston
the balls are the only legitimate explanation for the large jump in conference ERA (5.50 to 6.21).
Secondarily to your point, LSU has really been hit hard by injuries. Taylor-Edwards-Shores were set up to be very very prominent arms on this team. That is hard to overcome. So its hard to really knock LSU or Johnson for the talent on this staff. They have dug into it deeper than they ever thought.
All that said, LSU's conference ERA is now 6.09 as a team. They are in some deep shite if some of these guys do not develop quickly.
Secondarily to your point, LSU has really been hit hard by injuries. Taylor-Edwards-Shores were set up to be very very prominent arms on this team. That is hard to overcome. So its hard to really knock LSU or Johnson for the talent on this staff. They have dug into it deeper than they ever thought.
All that said, LSU's conference ERA is now 6.09 as a team. They are in some deep shite if some of these guys do not develop quickly.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:55 pm to skullhawk
quote:
If a kid has a future in baseball, I'd agree, but most kids throwing in LHSAA games aren't going to be playing college ball, so what do you say to them? You can't play as much because once every ten years, we'll have a pitcher with a shot at pro ball?
What percentage of HS pitchers play some sort of college ball? Considering also junior college, etc.
I feel like the kids "with a future in baseball" are the ones that get ridden the hardest in high school / travel ball. The kids who have no future probably aren't throwing that much.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:56 pm to LSUFanHouston
The majority of the top MLB draft prospect (pitchers) are college players. More college pitchers were taken in the first round last year than HS pitchers. It seems the MLB is preferring college pitchers more and more. Probably because they think they can get them to the majors sooner.
With NIL now being a factor, you may have more top prospect pitchers choosing to go to college because they may get paid as much, or more, than if they were to go to the minor leagues.
The interest level in college baseball is very small across the NCAA landscape. Even fewer programs turn a profit. The colleges don't have the money to "invest" in HC baseball.
I think a big reason major arm injuries are so common place now is because somewhere along the line parents decided little Johnny needs to "specialize" in baseball rather than be a kid a play all sports. It use to be the norm for kids to play baseball in the summer, before mostly stopping altogether to play football in the fall and basketball in the winter. "Pitch counts" are great. But those are only for games. When you have a 14 year old training year round, that is a LOT of wear on the arm...even if the pitches thrown in games are limited.
But at the end of the day, is the quality of college pitching down? Or is it just incorrect perception?
With NIL now being a factor, you may have more top prospect pitchers choosing to go to college because they may get paid as much, or more, than if they were to go to the minor leagues.
quote:
There needs to be more of an investment made in high school and travel ball coaching... but since most college baseball programs still lose money... I'm not sure they are in a position to pay for it.
The interest level in college baseball is very small across the NCAA landscape. Even fewer programs turn a profit. The colleges don't have the money to "invest" in HC baseball.
I think a big reason major arm injuries are so common place now is because somewhere along the line parents decided little Johnny needs to "specialize" in baseball rather than be a kid a play all sports. It use to be the norm for kids to play baseball in the summer, before mostly stopping altogether to play football in the fall and basketball in the winter. "Pitch counts" are great. But those are only for games. When you have a 14 year old training year round, that is a LOT of wear on the arm...even if the pitches thrown in games are limited.
But at the end of the day, is the quality of college pitching down? Or is it just incorrect perception?
Posted on 5/1/23 at 1:57 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
This seems to be happening more to younger freshman / sophmore pitching. I think this is very much due to overuse in the younger years, especially high school and travel ball.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I also believe there are more good hitting position players than there used to be 10 yrs ago due to Travel ball and the easy access to youth instruction. Not better hitters persay just more of them.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 2:00 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
1) Injuries. Pitching injuries all across the country continue to pile up. Both major TJ required surgeries, and injuries that don't require surgery but take people out for many weeks at a time. This seems to be happening more to younger freshman / sophmore pitching. I think this is very much due to overuse in the younger years, especially high school and travel ball. The pitch count rules in the LHSAA are an absolute joke. MLB starters get more rest than high school / travel ball starters. Secondairly, I think it is a lack of proper training / stretching at the lower levels.
There's another layer to this that gets over looked. Forearm conditioning. It's become a lost art. Pedro Martinez was the first former player I heard speak about it. Basically, younger pitchers focus far more on shoulder, leg, and chest strength and pretty much abandon the muscles the UCL connects to. He was speaking about pitchers in the majors, but the same can be said about younger players. High School conditioning isn't gears towards elbow care and there sure as hell isn't any conditioning at the travel/show case level.
Posted on 5/1/23 at 2:02 pm to GetmorewithLes
I’d say a 180 to that is too many kids being specialized as pitchers at way too young an age. No reason a kid doesn’t play the field through high school in my opinion.
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