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State of the program - 1.5 decades of mediocrity

Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:26 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96880 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:26 am
tl;dr - We suck again, regardless of coaching changes, money spent, etc.

Full disclosure: I am a lifelong LSU Tiger. That hasn't always been easy. My earliest memories were listening to games on the radio when the key offensive player was named Bert Jones and the key defender was Warren Capone.

My first game in the stadium was in elementary school when we hosted a Florida team and handed them a 3 TD loss. I earned 2 degrees from LSU.

As a student, I was able to watch games during the Arns/Archer era and then later (grad school) under Hallman/Dinardo.

LSU always seemed to be the underdog (at least pre-2003), regardless of whether we had an elite RB like Dalton Hilliard or QB like Hodson.

Something changed with, frankly, Dinardo. It was palpable. After perfecting losing with Hallman, Dinardo not only believed winning was possible, he convinced the fanbase it was possible. So much so, when he faltered, he was replaced. A guy who actually understood was Saban.

If only he could have been satisfied with LSU and didn't need to go to the NFL and fail before realizing his true calling. Regardless, for that era, LSU was a program with few equals. Resources, "sole" claim to an extremely rich state for high school football recruits. On a raw production scale, really only big states like California, Texas, Florida and, in a good year, maybe Pennsylvania, had anything like the total number of Div-I signees. On a per capita basis, only Mississippi really competed with us during that era.

Think about that - California is not even a particularly football-driven state. And they had Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA all picking through their high schools. Texas and Florida also had multiple elite football programs vying for recruits and even Mississippi had 2 SEC schools fighting for their kids.

Only (to me, inexplicably) QBs and (somewhat more understandably) OL seemed to be in somewhat short supply for us, necessitating a wider recruiting angle. Other than that, it seemed like one could just recruit Louisiana well and compete with the USCs, Texas, Notre Dames, Michigans, etc., of the football world.

LSU has just underperformed with that advantage. Year after year, decade after decade and it does not matter who the coach is (typically). Saban was here 5 years and fielded 1 really good team and 1 great, but flawed 1. Miles was good at what he did, but already obsolete when he came in. Like Dinardo, too dependent on having 2 good coordinators at the same time. O lucked into Joe Burrow. Frankly, that is all that needs to be said about that.

We have almost as many teams who clearly should have competed for/won the title than teams that actually won it (2006, 2011 were, frankly, better top to bottom than 2003 or 2007 - what 2003 and 2007 were better at were intangibles - 2007, in particular, got very lucky).

So, what does that mean for today? We are in a continual cycle now of paying 2 head coaches all the time. The one we fired and the one we're about to fire. How Indiana can get Cignetti, Bama continues to be great (if not dominant) after Saban or Ole Miss can continue to climb without Kiffin should frustrate every LSU fan.

Why does LSU continue to underperform relative to investment? Is there an inherent flaw that we just cannot see?

For 2027 (as 2026 is over, sorry if that's news to you), we will need an entirely new offensive line. We need to find the next Dilin Jones to use 2027 to get him ready and have a backup that fits this scheme. We need to find great linebackers that can actually play an entire season. We're going to need the next DJ Pickett. We need WRs that don't drop easy chunks and TDs. We're going to need the next Ty Benefield.

And even if we do all of these things, we can go 9-3 (easily) in 2027. If the playoffs expand to 24 teams, then that should be enough.

I say that only because of the resources expended. If we're going to spend 100s of millions of dollars (and it is hundreds of millions of dollars - we're obligated to about 9 figures just to the old and new head coaches, although some of that has already been paid out), and it is still just "mediocrity with style", then what are we doing here? LSU used to be historically cheap (Hallman made some pittance and he didn't earn that - Dinardo was probably the first coach we paid anything like market value, but then Saban started the trend of requiring schools to overpay).

That's over. So it isn't that LSU is underpaying for football. It's the opposite. LSU is overpaying and still not getting a reasonable return. How long is that sustainable?

It's at least a billion dollars in the rearview mirror now - easily - for one playoff team in 15 years. It happened to be a championship team. But exactly 1 highly competitive team (and it was a great one, maybe the best ever by anybody).

116 wins (many vacated) 2012 through 2025. 14 seasons. That's slightly over 8 1/4 wins per year, counting 2019. Excluding 2019 and for fairness 2020 that's 96 wins over 12 seasons - exactly 8 wins/year.

And it will be a scrap to get to 8 this year. To be average. To be merely mediocre. And this year's team cost, acutely, $150m on paper (I am counting the roster, the fired coaches buyouts from last year, the current coaching staff contracts, etc.). CONSERVATIVELY, $150m.

:inb4needtimetorebuild:

#NextYearU

This post was edited on 11/9/26 at 6:34 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96880 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:33 am to
Downvotes without comment.

#Cowards
Posted by John Rambeaux
Heauxpe, WA
Member since Oct 2023
1803 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:37 am to
quote:

Downvotes without comment. #Cowards


Responding to your own post to complain about downvotes is the quickest way to set a record for most downvotes
Posted by Cosmo
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
133861 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:37 am to
Downvoted and shared so more will downvote
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
80113 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:39 am to
Next Year U Except for the Year We Won
Posted by tigereye58
Member since Jan 2007
2896 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:42 am to
I’ll just say this bc that was long.

You compared us to Ole Miss, Bama and Indiana.

Ole Miss Kiffin built over years. Not in 1 year.

Bama Deboer took over the most successful program in history.

Indiana once again took several year for Cignetti to build it.

And you’re really to label Kiffin already. What he’s done is 1 year is pretty solid. We are in one of the deepest years the SEC has seen. Your post would be more accurate describing Texas.

Give it time. Kiffin is the right guy. Our mistake was hiring Kelly.
Posted by Tigerfanindawgland
Ga.
Member since Oct 2007
195 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:45 am to
Didn't cost you one penny, and nobody cares about vacated wins. We won them doing exactly what everyone else was doing.so no mediocrity during the beginning of the Les years at the end possibly but he won't see games here than any other coach.
Anyone who expected us to win at a high rate this year was just wishing Brian Kelly fleeced LSU and left the cupboard bare.
Posted by cbree88
South Louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
11477 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:49 am to
tl;dr

Shut up and quit being a pussy. We’ve done better than just about every schools not name Bama over the past 24 years (since 2003).

If you’ve been a fan for decades, then you should understand this concept and appreciate how well we’ve done.
This post was edited on 11/9/26 at 6:51 am
Posted by ApexTiger
cary nc
Member since Oct 2003
56847 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:51 am to
LSU has made it to the national championship game four times in the last 23 seasons

I think that puts us number two of all programs, not named Alabama

Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
39462 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 6:57 am to
Georgia spent close to 40 years mired in "mediocrity"
Ohio State spent about 30 years mired in "mediocrity " from the early 70s to about 2000
Notre Dame has had almost 40 years of futility
USC had largely been irrelevant for close to 25 years until Pete Carroll....then went back to "mediocrity"
Michigan has been the poster child for "mediocrity"
Florida has not been relevant in close to 15 years and prior to Spurrier largely an after thought.
Miami was in the wilderness for 25 years

We are bitching because we are a typical high end football program

Alabama with Saban and Bryant were the outliers since 1970

From 1950 to 1980 you had Alabama, OSU, ND and USC Oklahoma and Nebraska as your premier programs.
Posted by MetArl15
Washington, DC
Member since Apr 2007
14175 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:01 am to
Kudos to the OP. 8 wins a year is 8 wins a year. There are great highs, but it’s largely mediocrity. LSU8&4. It’s simply the truth as the OP noted.

Cignetti built his program in 1 year. First year playoffs, second year national championship. Kiffin is not Cignetti.
Posted by TigerBlitz03
New Iberia
Member since Nov 2008
1481 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:01 am to
Bring back the star RBs please, they thrive in these spread offenses
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
59066 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:07 am to
There are all kinds of mistatements in your post. “Ole Miss continues to climb?”

“we will need an entirely new offensive line”?

“Miles was already obsolete when he came in”?
Miles won a national title three years after he came in. Then, seven years after he came in he had the greatest season (at that point) in LSU history and maybe in college football history. That season was probably the point at which his offensive philosophy became obsolete. That was seven years after he came in.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96880 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:17 am to
quote:

There are all kinds of mistatements in your post. “Ole Miss continues to climb?”


Fair point

quote:

“we will need an entirely new offensive line”?



Now, hold on a minute, that's very accurate.

quote:

“Miles was already obsolete when he came in”?
Miles won a national title three years after he came in.


Obsolete doesn't mean ineffective. We brute forced our way there in 2007. I was a big Miles fan back in the day (before all of his terrible flaws became obvious to anyone). I even offer some grace for 2005 because of Katrina. But it was an obsolescent mindset that kept 2006 from making a championship run. The 2006 team had 4 players taken in the first round in 2007. Yes the 2007 team had 2 more picks (in 2008 at least), but only 1 first rounder (Dorsey).

And 2011, yes the best LSU team to not win the championship (maybe along with 2006 - that's close - 2006 had more offensive talent for sure) $hit the bed in the big game.

And that was it until Burrow. And not a whiff of greatness since.
This post was edited on 11/9/26 at 7:18 am
Posted by tigger1
Member since Mar 2005
3905 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:26 am to
Ace Midnight You have not seen the worse LSU ever was in my lifetime and that is the Curley Hallman years.

Before we hired Curley I even got on the radio and told everyone what was coming, To many people in power wanted Bob and Archer gone at the time. Bob because he stopped the good ole boys' network and was bringing LSU into a modern era, Mie due to recruiting and lack of wins. Those years are just after prop 48 destroyed recruiting in much of the south and the powers would not let Mike recruit Juco. Texas A&M became a power at that time by juco.

Our combined record under Curley Hallman was 16-28 You have to go back to the 1920;s when LSU was not pressing football to come to a point on questionable coaching, and they are far better than Curley. Only the 1909 team was coached by someone who should not have been coaching at all at LSU, that coach was an All American in track and field in running and Martin and Doc were faster than him.

You have a great coach now and Levitt being hurt is the one reason the team is losing to good teams, remember 2007 we won the national championship with a deleted D. Line and if the one player does not make it back we likely would have lost the NCG.
This post was edited on 11/9/26 at 7:38 am
Posted by KWL85
Member since Mar 2023
4259 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:40 am to
You claim we have had exactly one competitive team in 15 years. I disagree. You don't have to win it to be competitive. Go cry somewhere else. Arkansas needs fans if you want to jump ship.

Posted by Sleepy_Tiger
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Aug 2021
12913 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 7:44 am to
quote:

Downvotes without comment.

#Cowards



Im courious, how much did you contribute to LSU? #Bigmouth, I downvoted your wall of babble.
Posted by ApexTiger
cary nc
Member since Oct 2003
56847 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 8:14 am to
Cig won a title with 25 year old

His Heisman QB was a 3 year starter elsewhere
Posted by NorthshoreTiger76
Pelicans, Saints, & LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
84956 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 8:18 am to
quote:

Indiana once again took several year for Cignetti to build it.


Lol no it didn’t
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
96880 posts
Posted on 11/9/26 at 8:37 am to
quote:

You claim we have had exactly one competitive team in 15 years. I disagree.


Name the championship-caliber team after 2011 that was not 2019.

(*Hint - 8-4 teams are not championship caliber)

I mean, 2012 wasn't terrible, but had lost to Florida and Bama (sound familiar?) by the first week of November. Team lost 3 games by a total of 13 points. 2018, the setup year, looked great after the bowl game - I'll grant you that.

Final rankings for the 14 seasons I'm talking about are:

14, 14, UR, 16, 13, 18, 6, 1 ( ), UR, UR, 16, 12, UR, UR

I'm sorry if mediocre looks mediocre to me.
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