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re: Serious Question - What is a "true tiger?"
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:40 pm to LSUtigahs28
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:40 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:I would agree with this, but perceptions and urban legend are what fuels the internet.
I would also like to point out that once the Rant decides the collective opinion of a player it is nearly impossible to change.
1
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:55 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
So what it comes down to is that Josh, SFP and Max think the only thing wrong with KW is Les?
I just can't believe Les does a duck duck goose and pick CS or JH...
but alas I'll just continue to be attacked as some sort of racist even though I've said plenty of good things about KW
I just can't believe Les does a duck duck goose and pick CS or JH...
but alas I'll just continue to be attacked as some sort of racist even though I've said plenty of good things about KW
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:56 pm to Jaydeaux
quote:
So what it comes down to is that Josh, SFP and Max think the only thing wrong with KW is Les?
I just can't believe Les does a duck duck goose and pick CS or JH...
but alas I'll just continue to be attacked as some sort of racist even though I've said plenty of good things about KW
Can people on the Rant read? I'm hoenstly not sure.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:57 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:
Can people on the Rant read?
Can you ?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:58 pm to Jaydeaux
quote:
So what it comes down to is that Josh, SFP and Max think the only thing wrong with KW is Les?
Pretty much, yeah. But that is not an exhaustive list.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:58 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:
Can people on the Rant read? I'm hoenstly not sure.
Implying?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:59 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:
Can people on the Rant read?
They obviously have a tough time deciphering the actual argument being made.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:00 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Can you ?
Considering Jaydeaux is completely ignoring the actual point SFP is making here I have no idea why my ability to read is in question.
The point of this thread isn't necessarily KW v. JH or AH v. JL or Bowe v. Clayton.
The point is that a ton of people on the Rant flip their shite if you make a joke about one of a select group of LSU Tigers, but these same people will make multiple page threads bashing other groups of LSU players.
i.e. You have people saying JLee should walk off a cliff or they hope he transfers, but making a joke about Hester will incite a riot.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:03 pm to Antonio Moss
i wonder how many pages this would have been if it were started by anybody else?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:03 pm to LSUtigahs28
I haven't been critical of KW so it doesn't apply to me.
Certain people go out of their way to promote him and if you don't agree then you're in love with white players. So don't tell me I ignored the point.
Certain people go out of their way to promote him and if you don't agree then you're in love with white players. So don't tell me I ignored the point.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
SFP -- you do NOT look mainly at production. I know this because we've had this argument about a million times on the MSB. You go by measurables and talent. You rate players on their athleticism, not their production. I rate players on their production regardless of their athleticism and 40 times.
Actually, that's overstating the case. I know you care about production to some degree and I care about athleticism to some degree, but we focus on other things first. To say otherwise is dishonest.
We also completely disagree on how to read stats. you look at straight yards per carry, which I believe is highly misleading. My biggest knock on KW is that he is a boom or bust back. He gets you a few lousy carries and then busts a big one. His median yards per carry is high, but his mean is low. Hester (and Scott to a lesser degree) is the opposite -- he averages 4 yards per carry but he really does get four yards a carry. His consistency has massive value, even if he rarely busts a long run. He also has a high success rate (meaning that if it's 3rd and 3, Hester was more likely to get you 3 yards than KW).
I'm not sure how KW and Hatch relate at all, but I don't believe Hatch is a very good quarterback. That said, I appreciate everything he did for the program and he did an admirable job in a bad situation this season. Why bash a guy who has limited ability, wasn't supposed to start anyway, and is now leaving after giving his all to the program?
And once again, where are all of these threads ripping on KW?
Actually, that's overstating the case. I know you care about production to some degree and I care about athleticism to some degree, but we focus on other things first. To say otherwise is dishonest.
We also completely disagree on how to read stats. you look at straight yards per carry, which I believe is highly misleading. My biggest knock on KW is that he is a boom or bust back. He gets you a few lousy carries and then busts a big one. His median yards per carry is high, but his mean is low. Hester (and Scott to a lesser degree) is the opposite -- he averages 4 yards per carry but he really does get four yards a carry. His consistency has massive value, even if he rarely busts a long run. He also has a high success rate (meaning that if it's 3rd and 3, Hester was more likely to get you 3 yards than KW).
I'm not sure how KW and Hatch relate at all, but I don't believe Hatch is a very good quarterback. That said, I appreciate everything he did for the program and he did an admirable job in a bad situation this season. Why bash a guy who has limited ability, wasn't supposed to start anyway, and is now leaving after giving his all to the program?
And once again, where are all of these threads ripping on KW?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:08 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:
The point is that a ton of people on the Rant flip their shite if you make a joke about one of a select group of LSU Tigers, but these same people will make multiple page threads bashing other groups of LSU players.
The implication that "the Rant" has a majority opinion is deeply flawed. Some of the people in this thread who already think Williams should be in Canton are the same ones who bash coaches and players with pride. Are they 'the rant' ,too ?
This "the rant say" is getting out of hand. The other day some lone poster suggested LSU host a bowl game. Yet within no time on another forum here,there it was "THE RANT SAYS LSU SHOULD HOST A BOWL GAME".
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:08 pm to LSUtigahs28
quote:Well, I 've given you the reasons in the last 2 pages, have you read them at all? Hester is a legend in LSU lore because of what he did, therefore, you can't trash him. While Lee almost singlehandedly destructed the entire 2008 season. The two aren't comparable. Lee is a goat, Hester a hero. What's so hard to comprehend about that? Not saying it's right or wrong, but that's the way it is. To bring the argument back to KW (which was SFP's original post), he hasn't done anything YET that has separated him in the minds of Tiger fans to be anything other than the next talented running back at LSU. Once he creates that legend (and I hope he will), then I doubt you will see many negative posts about him.
The point is that a ton of people on the Rant flip their shite if you make a joke about one of a select group of LSU Tigers, but these same people will make multiple page threads bashing other groups of LSU players.
i.e. You have people saying JLee should walk off a cliff or they hope he transfers, but making a joke about Hester will incite a riot.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:09 pm to Jaydeaux
quote:
Certain people go out of their way to promote him and if you don't agree then you're in love with white players. So don't tell me I ignored the point.
You ignored the point.
The point of this thread isn't a Keiland Williams evaulation. Its that many people on this board value this indescribable, subjective quality of some LSU players, some of whom don't actually produce on the field (Hatch), all the while bashing other LSU players who do actually produce (Williams, Russell, etc.)
I don't think its racism. It maybe a little bit of "hometown boys" syndrome. However, I think the overwhelming problem is that most fans don't have a clue.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:10 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
However, I think the overwhelming problem is that most fans don't have a clue.
Maintaining Williams should start doesn't make someone an NFL GM.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:13 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
I don't think its racism. It maybe a little bit of "hometown boys" syndrome. However, I think the overwhelming problem is that most fans don't have a clue.
Please re read what i've said on this thread. I lauded KW for the good he's done and I don't think there's much of anyone being critical. Therefore WTF reason do I have to answer the question for. It's just another attempt to bitch about KW being held back.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:14 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Maintaining Williams should start doesn't make someone an NFL GM.
Its less about that and more about the criteria in which certain players are judged compared to others.
I honestly don't think Williams is the best example because he has underperformed to an extent (although I do agree with SFP that the coaches hold some guilt here).
Take a look at how Jamarcus was viewed while at LSU compared to Flynn. Russell performed better in every single aspect of the game, yet Flynn is much more revered by the board. It makes no sense.
This post was edited on 1/15/09 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:17 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Well, I 've given you the reasons in the last 2 pages
You have, that post wasn't directed at you.
The post was direct at people who keep thinking this thread is about KW, when it clearly isn't.
quote:
Hester is a legend in LSU lore because of what he did, therefore, you can't trash him. While Lee almost singlehandedly destructed the entire 2008 season. The two aren't comparable. Lee is a goat, Hester a hero. What's so hard to comprehend about that?
I'm not talking about evaluating them differently on the field as a player. LSU fans should be objective when evaluating LSU players. If a guy isn't playing well then say it. These kids knew what they were getting into when they signed a LoI. This isn't the local Pop Warner league. LSU is a business whose job is to put a good product on the field.
I agree as a player JH is much better than Hester.
However fans should respect both as people and LS Tigers. Lee tried this season. After games worth of bashing and questionable performances when Les told Lee to get in the game he went out there and played.
There is a huge discrepancy in this treatment of Lee and Hester when there shouldn't be. A joke about Hester's facemask penalty or training and people want to take your head off. Wishing death to Lee and people are fine with it.
quote:
he hasn't done anything YET that has separated him in the minds of Tiger fans to be anything other than the next talented running back at LSU.
Agreed, but he also hasn't done anything wrong, yet he gets bashed.
Probably because of hype, but the way some people have treated KW is crazy when he was crucial to our success in 06 and made some clutch plays in 07. However people act like he is a terrible LSU player.
Saying someone like RP is terrible and such is understandable. He had a big negative impact on LSU, KW has made plays when given the chance. Even this year.
This post was edited on 1/15/09 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:18 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Take a look at how Jamarcus was viewed while at LSU compared to Flynn. Russell performed better in every single aspect of the game, yet Flynn is much more revered by the board. It makes no sense.
No he is not. Flynn has his supporters and so does Russell. No doubt their are some who didn't like Russell for whatever reason. But there are plenty here who will downplay anything Flynn did as well. Its impossible to say who liked/preferred .
An occassional thread or two that may then go into 25 pages does not mean one player is a hero or sucked in "the Rant's" opinion.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 2:21 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
No he is not. Flynn has his supporters and so does Russell. No doubt their are some who didn't like Russell for whatever reason. But there are plenty here who will downplay anything Flynn did as well. Its impossible to say who liked/preferred .
An occassional thread or two that may then go into 25 pages does not mean one player is a hero or sucked in "the Rant's" opinion.
You can honestly say that this board was 50% Russell, 50% Flynn during their careers?
C'mon man. We all saw what it was like. Sure Russell had some support, but his supporters no where near numbered those of Flynn's.
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