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re: Serious Question - What is a "true tiger?"
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:You're looking at production an hardcore fans are looking at attitude, desire, loyalty.
actually i mainly look at production
quote:Clayton combined with Spears and a few others almost singlehandedly resurructed the LSU football program from disaster by deciding to come here when they could have gone anywhere else in the country. They made the Nat'l Champ in '03 happen. These players are lions in the LSU lore. Bowe hardly produced anything until his senior year, and he was somewhat of a hotdog and immature player. He was good his senior year but will not be remembered in LSU history.
clayton left after his junior year. bowe didn't.
quote:Look at their off the field actions and what they said in interviews not their on the field production and that will answer your question.
how have any of these 3 not shown to be a "true tiger" at heart?
quote:agree
i think answering that question may answer the initial question of this thread
quote:He may have 'tore it up' one year on the field, but did he exemplify what being a true Tiger fan was? Did he bleed purple and gold?
how is saying Bowe > Clayton while Bowe is here tearing it up not being a "regular fan?"
2
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:21 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
ome people rank Clayton's accomplishments over his career at LSU to be better than Bowe's, some don't...get the frick over it.
it's more about rankings in their heart
and i'm asking why
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:24 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
You're looking at production an hardcore fans are looking at attitude, desire, loyalty.
KW has great attitude and has had good loyalty after being pushed back on the depth chart and sticking it out
he's bulked up and has improved his blocking, so i don't think people can question his desire
quote:
Bowe hardly produced anything until his senior year
he produced his sophomore and junior year also
quote:
Look at their off the field actions and what they said in interviews not their on the field production and that will answer your question.
what has bowe said?
shite the rumors out of tampa are that clayton has a real bad drinking problem. he's had his share of off the field rumors
quote:
but did he exemplify what being a true Tiger fan was?
did he not?
if so, how did he not?
quote:
Did he bleed purple and gold?
he did reject hometown Miami to come here and stay ALL 4 years
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:24 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
did he exemplify what being a true Tiger fan was? Did he bleed purple and gold?
how exactly do you do these things, or quantify the extent to which you do them?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
SFP, I don't think it's as much a knock on KW as it is yankin' your chain. You have had blinders on concerning KW almost since day 1. Not a knock on you, you like KW a lot and voice your support for him. But, you have made some assinine assertions concerning the same. That's why people love to yank YOUR chain. Just an observation.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:25 pm to ATLTiger
quote:
how exactly do you do these things, or quantify the extent to which you do them?
exactly
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Because fans are 'fantatics' about THEIR team. If a player shows those same traits as a true fan does, the true fan identifies with that player, regardless of production as you say. The player is a true Tiger, a warrior, and gets major respect from the fans. It's not wrong to say JR was much more talented than Flynn, but that Flynn was a fan favorite. It just is. Perception is reality.
it's more about rankings in their heart
and i'm asking why
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:29 pm to josh336
quote:
Hester because he is less talented and is from the area.
Keiland's home is closer than Hester's.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so i don't think people can question his desire
you don't think there is a general opinion that KW has coasted through his time at LSU? I've never seen any news related to how hard he works in the off-season, how he was yelling at players in practice, giving half-time speeches, etc.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:34 pm to ATLTiger
quote:I don't think you can. It's more like a feeling, a fan favorite. Why do Saints fans yell "Deeeeeuuuuuucce"! every time he gets the ball when he's hardly produced anything in the last few years? Because the fans love him. Some players just have legend surrounding them- Hester getting the 4th down conversions against Florida, Clayton knocking an Auburn players head off on an onside kick, Flynn putting an asswhipping on Miami...they are legends in LSU lore. You either are, or you aren't.
how exactly do you do these things, or quantify the extent to which you do them?
KW has the chance to create some lore next year, personally I hope he does, cause I really like him alot, but he's going to have to show the same grit and determination that the aforementioned players have shown in a crucial situation for that to happen.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:34 pm to ForeLSU
Hatch was never expected to do much
Keiland was all-world coming in to LSU
Keiland was all-world coming in to LSU
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
The same people undervaluing KW are probably the same people who undervalued JR. KW is a damn good running back. It is just the "it" thing to do and bash him with petty arguments like he fumbles in spring scrimmages. It really is ridiculous.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:40 pm to Herbstreit
quote:
FWIW - I have spoken to a member of the extended coaching staff and even he says that Williams runs more timid and upright now then his frosh year. He was supposed to be the Reggie Bush of LSU and he's turned into Justin Vincent Jr.
Yet he still produced when given a chance this year and last. He averaged almost 7 ypc as a soph, and looked really good against USC and Ga Tech this year.
He just wasn't given the opportunity to live up to his hype for what ever reason.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:42 pm to Cash
Justin Vincent Jr.? Are you high?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:49 pm to Cash
quote:
Keiland's home is closer than Hester's
i was using that argument more for people that like Clayton better than Bowe
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:52 pm to josh336
quote:
i was using that argument more for people that like Clayton better than Bowe
I see that comparison, but you also mentioned Hester.
Posted on 1/15/09 at 12:53 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
you don't think there is a general opinion that KW has coasted through his time at LSU? I've never seen any news related to how hard he works in the off-season, how he was yelling at players in practice, giving half-time speeches, etc.
Can anyone pull up the article about him coming into the 07 season after he had a monster ending to 2006 and everyone was touting him as our next great runningback that was leading us in 2007? He had a great attitude with great quotes saying he doesn't think he can just coast into being the #1 back, that there are other great backs on this team, and he'd have to work extra hard. Everyone on the rant was talking about how great his attitude was.
Also, why does he have to be a loudmouth to have desire? Do you really think we will hear about R. Randle yelling at players in practice or giving halftime speeches?
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:01 pm to josh336
I would also like to point out that once the Rant decides the collective opinion of a player it is nearly impossible to change.
Lafell is a great example. You still have people saying he should have been benched for TT this year, despite being the most productive WR on the team by far and having arguably the best WRing year in the SEC.(As proof check wgulsu's post history)
Lafell is a great example. You still have people saying he should have been benched for TT this year, despite being the most productive WR on the team by far and having arguably the best WRing year in the SEC.(As proof check wgulsu's post history)
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:28 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i think that plays a part, but it goes beyond race
SFP - you're right - race is overblown in these discussions. The most discussions we've had on a player preference has been QB, at least in my adult life. Goes all the way back to Melvin Hill and Herb Tyler. I'm not going to discount any and all elements of race, but, outside of Hokie Gajan, Sammy Martin and Jacob Hester, what white TBs has LSU played since integration?
And you're also correct in that, people who stand up for Jarrett Lee and Andrew Hatch (again QBs) should also stand up for KW. My only criticisms of KW have been that he seems tentative and sometimes runs like a small back (in a bad way) in a big back's body. I haven't gotten involved in many of those discussions that you mentioned, but maybe I should have.
However, most people are preferring Scott (an African-American) to KW (an African-American), so I don't think there's racism there. There was some reverse racism in some people (and predominantly caucasians, I might add) being against Hester when he was obviously producing.
quote:
some people will never accept the fact that bowe was as good as, if not better than, clayton
They were similar receivers, and Bowe was hampered by his vision problems - I will agree with you that they were comparable players, and people who don't see that may just be fans of Clayton's style, and the subjectively better performance his his first couple of years versus Bowe's couple of years. It is not expectations that have hurt Bowe in some quarters (Clayton was described as a "once in a generation" type player, I never heard Bowe lauded so highly), but those early year performances.
Bowe's last year he was as complete a split end as LSU has produced. The only thing that hurts him is that he was in a receiver corps full of first round draft picks, so it was harder to stand out (and he did and does in the league, anyway).
This post was edited on 1/15/09 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 1/15/09 at 1:39 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
SFP your blind spot as a fan (and I use that term loosely), is that you admire talent and athletic ability over loyalty and hard work. Hardcore fans love players who appear to bleed purple and gold like themselves. It's what they imagine themselves to be if they were players. Clayton, Rohan, and Hester (just to name a few) exemplify this behavior. There's nothing wrong with that. And it's great that a player has great athletic ability a la JR or Bowe, or Keiland. But none of them have shown to be true Tigers at heart.
This is such complete and utter bullshite that its actually astonishing. Do you believe half the crap in that nonsensical spew?
I hold to my original position - most LSU fans to have a clue what they are talking about.
This post was edited on 1/15/09 at 1:45 pm
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