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Question about the game clock after a holding penalty
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:12 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:12 pm
When we were trying to run out the clock at the end of the game and had a run called back for holding, the game clock kept running, actually punishing Auburn for LSU's penalty by ensuring we could then drain the rest of the clock.
How is this fair?
If you have the ball with four minutes left and want to melt the clock, why not just start tackling defenders to keep taking more time off?
Pardon my confusion.
How is this fair?
If you have the ball with four minutes left and want to melt the clock, why not just start tackling defenders to keep taking more time off?
Pardon my confusion.
4
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:15 pm to Nix to Twillie
If they declined the penalty it would have been a first down. The game was over either way.
You have to look at it both ways. What if a team trying to score was out of time outs. Could they commit a penalty just to stop the clock? It’s odd how it worked out but it’s part of the game
You have to look at it both ways. What if a team trying to score was out of time outs. Could they commit a penalty just to stop the clock? It’s odd how it worked out but it’s part of the game
This post was edited on 10/28/19 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:15 pm to Nix to Twillie
They had the option to not take the penalty but the run was for a first so either way they were fricked
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:19 pm to tigersmanager
I still don't follow. Since they accepted the penalty to replay first down, why wouldn't the clock start on the snap--as it did when the drive started?
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:30 pm to Nix to Twillie
I’m not sure, would like clarification myself on the rule... seems like defense should have the option on what to do with clock. I agree a team should not be able to benefit from its own penalty.
It really didn’t matter though, even if Auburn had stopped us on the 3 downs they would have gotten the ball back with less than 20 seconds and no timeouts, maybe less if we ran some 6-10 second slow-developing plays. Once they didn’t get the onside kick, the game was effectively over.
I’m still passed they were gifted a TD with a phantom PI call that set them up goal to go.
It really didn’t matter though, even if Auburn had stopped us on the 3 downs they would have gotten the ball back with less than 20 seconds and no timeouts, maybe less if we ran some 6-10 second slow-developing plays. Once they didn’t get the onside kick, the game was effectively over.
I’m still passed they were gifted a TD with a phantom PI call that set them up goal to go.
This post was edited on 10/28/19 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 10/28/19 at 10:32 pm to Nix to Twillie
quote:
I still don't follow. Since they accepted the penalty to replay first down, why wouldn't the clock start on the snap--as it did when the drive started?
Because in the situation we may have needed a clock stoppage (at the expense of 10 yards), teams could just commit holding penalties blatantly and assure they get called. The rule as is prevents that, but it doesn't prevent a team from using it to get an extra down. I think the way its set up prevents abuse more so than using it to run extra time off the clock would as this scenario would come up less. We just happened to be right in the sweet spot of having this scenario happen. Otherwise you'd see many more teams doing it to gain and advantage but you don't. If a holding penalty stopped the clock, you'd see that on tons of games where teams desperately need a stopped clock and can spare 10 yards when they're going for chunk plays every play.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 11:35 pm to Nix to Twillie
Anyone know this for sure? I thought this was another ref’ing mistake. If that really is the rule, then in that particular situation every single player on offense should have committed a holding penalty in order to maximize our chances of getting a first down. If they accept the penalty, we win because we have an extra down to run out the clock. If they decline, we get the first down and win because we have an extra down to run out the clock....? To me it seems like a no brainer, take advantage of the rule and hold! I just have a hard time believing this rule exists since I haven’t actually seen a team try this tactic.
Posted on 10/28/19 at 11:55 pm to DiabeticRob
Your explanation seems plausible.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 12:12 am to DiabeticRob
quote:
If that really is the rule, then in that particular situation every single player on offense should have committed a holding penalty in order to maximize our chances of getting a first down. If they accept the penalty, we win because we have an extra down to run out the clock. If they decline, we get the first down and win because we have an extra down to run out the clock....?
This used to happen from time to time in the NFL, the Ravens were known to have everyone hold on purpose when running clock. The NFL put in a rule in 2017 that if multiple players intentionally commit penalties the clock stops and it's a 15 yard penalty. Not sure what the college rule is.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 7:33 am to BigOrangeWave
the clock was running after thr previous play was over . penalty will stop clock. after enforcement of penalty clock starts since it was running .
Posted on 10/29/19 at 7:38 am to DiabeticRob
quote:
Anyone know this for sure? I thought this was another ref’ing mistake. If that really is the rule, then in that particular situation every single player on offense should have committed a holding penalty in order to maximize our chances of getting a first down. If they accept the penalty, we win because we have an extra down to run out the clock. If they decline, we get the first down and win because we have an extra down to run out the clock....? To me it seems like a no brainer, take advantage of the rule and hold! I just have a hard time believing this rule exists since I haven’t actually seen a team try this tactic.
I think it was a ref mistake...either that or a horrible rule.
The rule as I understood it is that the clock would revert to whatever the previous play was. In other words, if the clock was running at the start of the play, a penalty is called and the clock will wind on the whistle. If the clock was stopped prior to the snap, then a penalty doesn't change that, and it will start at the snap.
I see no disadvantage to holding on that play if it was called correctly. In fact, it was what guaranteed that we didn't have to punt.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 7:43 am to tigersmanager
quote:
They had the option to not take the penalty but the run was for a first so either way they were fricked
Well then there is a problem is a penalty helps the team who was called for the penalty. Why not tell your OL to hold like crazy? If he gets only gets a couple of yards and they decline the penalty then what did you lose? If he gets the 1st like in LSU’s case then you won the game either way.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 7:48 am to STEVED00
I believe the play happened outside of 2 minutes which is why the clock started back up. Sure you could change the rule to make the threshold 3 minutes, or 4 minutes, and then just make CBS games even longer.
Gotta draw a line somewhere.
Gotta draw a line somewhere.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 9:40 am to bbap
The play began with less than 3 minutes to go in the game. We ran for a first down but we were called for holding.
Auburn could either accept the penalty, or decline the penalty and take the result of the play. But since the clock started when the ball was snapped, the play clock had to start once determination was made.
It’s a bad rule really, the offended team’s coach should have the option of taking the penalty and either starting the clock or not starting the clock.
FWIW, HS rules provide for this because teams could deliberately hold (or commit a penalty) and profit from it.
Edit to Correcterror
Auburn could either accept the penalty, or decline the penalty and take the result of the play. But since the clock started when the ball was snapped, the play clock had to start once determination was made.
It’s a bad rule really, the offended team’s coach should have the option of taking the penalty and either starting the clock or not starting the clock.
FWIW, HS rules provide for this because teams could deliberately hold (or commit a penalty) and profit from it.
Edit to Correcterror
This post was edited on 10/29/19 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:18 am to jlovel7
quote:
Because in the situation we may have needed a clock stoppage (at the expense of 10 yards), teams could just commit holding penalties blatantly and assure they get called. The rule as is prevents that, but it doesn't prevent a team from using it to get an extra down. I think the way its set up prevents abuse more so than using it to run extra time off the clock would as this scenario would come up less. We just happened to be right in the sweet spot of having this scenario happen. Otherwise you'd see many more teams doing it to gain and advantage but you don't. If a holding penalty stopped the clock, you'd see that on tons of games where teams desperately need a stopped clock and can spare 10 yards when they're going for chunk plays every play.
easy solution is to give the other team the option of clock stopping or clock running.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:31 am to DCtiger1
quote:
You have to look at it both ways. What if a team trying to score was out of time outs. Could they commit a penalty just to stop the clock
Couldnt the team on defense do just that? Third and 15, offense at the line milking the clock. Jump offsides, stop the clock and take your chances with third and ten.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:31 am to Jim Rockford
quote:If the clock was running before, it will restart.
Couldnt the team on defense do just that? Third and 15, offense at the line milking the clock. Jump offsides, stop the clock and take your chances with third and ten.
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:35 am to AlxTgr
There is a 10 second "run-off" rule if a penalty occurs with a running clock (I think in the final minute of play...perhaps final 2?)
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:53 am to doubleb
quote:
The play began with less than 2 minutes to go in the game. We ran for a first down but we were called for holding.
You're wrong according to the stat sheet. Play began with 2:20 to go.
Im watching the replay and the play actually happend with 2:31 to go.
Either way 100% outside of 2 minutes.
This post was edited on 10/29/19 at 10:57 am
Posted on 10/29/19 at 10:56 am to bbap
Super simple: clock doesn’t stop for a penalty outside of 2 minutes. The play began outside of 2 minutes
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