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re: ND fan here
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:24 pm to Here for the Heist
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:24 pm to Here for the Heist
quote:That is a stretch. With the portal and NIL? Come on.
but the threat of losing 30 players would have set the program back a decade.
My goodness, I'm guessing the Notre Dame one fanbase / business / networking environment would have among the deepest pockets in D1 football. A strong coach could turn this around quickly (see BK).
1
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:37 pm to Here for the Heist
I didn't see the original post to respond, but I'll echo what many have already said - thank you for the level-headed analysis and good sportsmanship. TYFYS.
Therein lies the rub, eh? Every D1 school that wants to be a contender should have D1-level QB's riding the bench behind the starter. Them having to play early is certainly not ideal, but the talent should be there even if the skill and experience is not.
I come from a family of ND-haters - my dad is in his late 70's and raised us that ND were the biggest whiners in the world of football. But, I was ecstatic when LSU hired Kelly (my dad is warming up but not there yet) because he is one of only a few proven names in CFB coaching. Pulling him was a huge coup and, in my opinion, set the CFB world on its ear - because of what it implied - that ND was not as relevant as an SEC school.
Emotions aside, that is a monumental shift for CFB. Notre Dame paved the way for TV contracts and began the shift from CFB being a regional game into being a national game. ND may have been the first to have national and international fanbases who had no other connection to the school other than being a fan. It's something to really consider, then - with that history behind them, are they willing to do what it takes to get back near the front of the pack as a leader in the CFB world?
quote:
...a good game plan for a QB that should be playing DII ball.
Therein lies the rub, eh? Every D1 school that wants to be a contender should have D1-level QB's riding the bench behind the starter. Them having to play early is certainly not ideal, but the talent should be there even if the skill and experience is not.
I come from a family of ND-haters - my dad is in his late 70's and raised us that ND were the biggest whiners in the world of football. But, I was ecstatic when LSU hired Kelly (my dad is warming up but not there yet) because he is one of only a few proven names in CFB coaching. Pulling him was a huge coup and, in my opinion, set the CFB world on its ear - because of what it implied - that ND was not as relevant as an SEC school.
Emotions aside, that is a monumental shift for CFB. Notre Dame paved the way for TV contracts and began the shift from CFB being a regional game into being a national game. ND may have been the first to have national and international fanbases who had no other connection to the school other than being a fan. It's something to really consider, then - with that history behind them, are they willing to do what it takes to get back near the front of the pack as a leader in the CFB world?
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:38 pm to Here for the Heist
quote:Still a mistake to worry about that.
u're not necessarily wrong here. I wouldn't let the players or recruiting classes hold me hostage but it was more than just one recruiting class.
Rumors were that they would have lost about a dozen players to transfer or NFL if they didn't hire Freeman and dozens of recruits from two recruiting classes. Who knows what would have happened if they went another direction but the threat of losing 30 players would have set the program back a decade.
You're talking about guys on the team, and 1-2 recruiting classes.
As Kelly coming to LSU has proven, a good hire will bolter the incoming classes.
Freeman's upcoming classes may suffer if ND goes 7-5 this year, especially guys a year or 2 down the road. It's not the same as coming to a 10-2, 11-1 program.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:40 pm to LSUtoOmaha
Polian can recruit but struggles with coaching.
ND's special teams were always below average with Kelly. The disaster against FSU reminded me of the fake field goal Sparty ran against ND in kelly's first year at ND. I felt your pain.
Polian has been with Kelly a while but he doesn't even have to fire him. Just make him a recruiting coordinator and hire someone that can make a difference on special teams.
Kelly has to believe he's ahead of schedule with "rebuilding" right now. If Walker Howard is the guy, I believe you are closer than most people believe to being a legit title contender. It would be foolish for him not to review every weakness on the staff and make some tweaks this offseason. Replacing Polian is just too obvious not to consider - it's already cost you this year.
ND's special teams were always below average with Kelly. The disaster against FSU reminded me of the fake field goal Sparty ran against ND in kelly's first year at ND. I felt your pain.
Polian has been with Kelly a while but he doesn't even have to fire him. Just make him a recruiting coordinator and hire someone that can make a difference on special teams.
Kelly has to believe he's ahead of schedule with "rebuilding" right now. If Walker Howard is the guy, I believe you are closer than most people believe to being a legit title contender. It would be foolish for him not to review every weakness on the staff and make some tweaks this offseason. Replacing Polian is just too obvious not to consider - it's already cost you this year.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:50 pm to G&P
quote:
Freeman was a terrible hire.
Hiring a young guy because you thought he could recruit is the epitome of total incompetence.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
Sincerely,
Mike Archer.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 1:54 pm to linewar
quote:
Therein lies the rub, eh? Every D1 school that wants to be a contender should have D1-level QB's riding the bench behind the starter. Them having to play early is certainly not ideal, but the talent should be there even if the skill and experience is not.
This is my biggest issue with the staff right now. ND could have taken JT Daniels or Kedon Slovis and chose not to, presumably so they wouldn't hurt Buchner's feelings. ND fans can believe what they want but there's no doubt in my mind Kelly would have brought one of these guys in to compete and we'd be 6-1 right now. If it's true that they could have got one of these guys, and I believe it's true, it was a costly mistake.
quote:
I come from a family of ND-haters - my dad is in his late 70's and raised us that ND were the biggest whiners in the world of football. But, I was ecstatic when LSU hired Kelly (my dad is warming up but not there yet) because he is one of only a few proven names in CFB coaching. Pulling him was a huge coup and, in my opinion, set the CFB world on its ear - because of what it implied - that ND was not as relevant as an SEC school.
ND is not as relevant as SEC powers. That is obvious. They're not irrelevant as the media likes to suggest but they are less relevant than bama, lsu, georgia, etc.
quote:
Emotions aside, that is a monumental shift for CFB. Notre Dame paved the way for TV contracts and began the shift from CFB being a regional game into being a national game. ND may have been the first to have national and international fanbases who had no other connection to the school other than being a fan. It's something to really consider, then - with that history behind them, are they willing to do what it takes to get back near the front of the pack as a leader in the CFB world?
They would love to be leading the pack again but on their own terms and that's not going to happen. IMO, they are not willing to do what it takes to compete. Maybe that changes over time but as of right now, there's no evidence to suggest that changes will be made to compete. ND is not going to recruit at a level high enough to consistently compete for a title. The best we can hope for is top ten classes, a playoff spot every few years and the only way we win a title is landing a generational talent at QB. It is what it is.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:00 pm to Here for the Heist
quote:really enjoy reading your posts and viewpoint.
Here for the Heist
Was wondering if can expound on the Denbrock demotion at ND from OC to WR coach. Was it forced upon Kelly by the administration and what lead to it?
I'm hoping Kelly makes a change with Polian at special teams and leaves him in the same role but hires a consultant to actually coach.
We didnt have any major blunders on special teams vs ole miss but opening kickoff a guy is offsides. Polian is constantly making last minute adjustments even while the guy is running to kick, its maddening.
I'm not big on Denbrock but Bama will be the biggest test and see what kind of gameplan he rolls out. This type of offense will have you competetive and win 10 games a year but will get you beat by top teams all the time. Just look at Kelly's record vs top 10 teams. I'm hoping Kelly can adapt his offensive philosophy to be more modern.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:01 pm to LSURulzSEC
quote:
The problem with ND, that many ND fans and the administration will not admit, is ND…
Unless you land a generational QB you will not win another NC no matter who your coach is…
The downfall, and you can go back and track it with the number of double digit wins, was 1994 when the scholarship limit dropped from 95 to 85…
Those 10 extra schollies allowed ND to overcome the academic standards it has hampered itself with to get the number of play makers that is needed that they have been lacking in numbers for each team ever since
I disagree. There are two problems with ND (and most of the rest of collage football).
The first is that with the hiring of Nick Saban at LSU, the SEC got serious about football coaching. The SEC always had the talent, but we hired coaches like Charlie Mac, Curley Hallman, Gaynell Tinsley, and a hundred other drawling good old boys. Occasionally a Paul Dietzel would get hired, but it was rare.
So the coastal and northern teams would swoop in and swipe some of our best talent. As SEC teams started to sink money into their coaching staffs this shifted the power balance away from the northern and coastal schools and towards the talent rich south.
Second, the rest of the nation is falling out of love with football. We are seeing the rise of soccer and video games as the past time of choice, and this is especially true of those regions where the traditional powers mostly reside. We are reaching a point that only the south will even care about football.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:09 pm to Here for the Heist
quote:
Here for the Heist
Quality poster.
Thanks for your insight. Looking back, you've been pretty spot on.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:11 pm to chrome_daddy
Maybe, maybe not.
Rumors are rumors but I think we would have lost a half dozen starters or more - Foskey, Patterson and Jay Ademilola would have left for the draft, Styles, Colzie, Tyree, Pyne, Justin Ademilola, Griffith would have transferred and Joseph would have never transferred to ND if Freeman and Rees didn't stay.
And that would be fine by me if I had any confidence that ND would have made a home run hire. Not likely.
ND has deep pockets and kids are getting NIL deals but we don't seem interested in pushing the envelope like some other schools. Why go to ND and earn your NIL when you can go to USC and get paid before you set foot on campus.
You're either all in or you're not, and we are not. No way NIL would have kept the roster together for another coach.
That doesn't mean you're wrong overall, though. You don't let the insane run the asylum and that's what ND did here, even if Freeman was the sexy hire.
Rumors are rumors but I think we would have lost a half dozen starters or more - Foskey, Patterson and Jay Ademilola would have left for the draft, Styles, Colzie, Tyree, Pyne, Justin Ademilola, Griffith would have transferred and Joseph would have never transferred to ND if Freeman and Rees didn't stay.
And that would be fine by me if I had any confidence that ND would have made a home run hire. Not likely.
ND has deep pockets and kids are getting NIL deals but we don't seem interested in pushing the envelope like some other schools. Why go to ND and earn your NIL when you can go to USC and get paid before you set foot on campus.
You're either all in or you're not, and we are not. No way NIL would have kept the roster together for another coach.
That doesn't mean you're wrong overall, though. You don't let the insane run the asylum and that's what ND did here, even if Freeman was the sexy hire.
This post was edited on 10/24/22 at 2:12 pm
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:14 pm to Giantkiller
You are right. And this time it cost me - wife is pregnant with the fourth, and I lost my mind after our third was born a few months ago.
Pray for me.
Pray for me.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:21 pm to Here for the Heist
Thanks for the reply. I respect history, and I think it's best for CFB when the "traditional powerhouses" are strong. But, Yale invented football - and look where they are now.
They were so close to aligning with a conference during COVID. Should've taken the plunge.
If you get tired of ND and pack it in as a fan, there's room at the LSU tailgate for you. We'll have a bowl of gumbo and a cold beer waiting for you.
quote:
They would love to be leading the pack again but on their own terms and that's not going to happen.
They were so close to aligning with a conference during COVID. Should've taken the plunge.
If you get tired of ND and pack it in as a fan, there's room at the LSU tailgate for you. We'll have a bowl of gumbo and a cold beer waiting for you.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:23 pm to Here for the Heist
quote:I will.
Pray for me.
And I'll also pray the Irish somehow, someway beat Clempsun.
I mainly grew up in Charleston, SC and am sick of all the bandwagoners down there.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:24 pm to Mudminnow
Appreciate the kind words.
If I recall correctly, Denbrock was demoted after 2016, which was a historically bad year at ND. AD gave Kelly a choice - overhaul the staff or leave. He made changes that ultimately worked out for ND. It wasn't entirely Denbrock's fault we were awful. The entire team was shite and he just caught the arse end of it b/c shite rolls downhill.
LSU can and should do better than Denbrock. It's not lost on Kelly. He was candid after the offensive performance against TN. Polian has to go. That's without question. I'm not sure Kelly pulls the trigger on replacing Denbrock if you can win 10 games this year. On the one hand, you can get a better coach. On the other, you're winning. To me, it's not a tough call. You have a program willing ot get the best available so go out there and get him.
If I recall correctly, Denbrock was demoted after 2016, which was a historically bad year at ND. AD gave Kelly a choice - overhaul the staff or leave. He made changes that ultimately worked out for ND. It wasn't entirely Denbrock's fault we were awful. The entire team was shite and he just caught the arse end of it b/c shite rolls downhill.
LSU can and should do better than Denbrock. It's not lost on Kelly. He was candid after the offensive performance against TN. Polian has to go. That's without question. I'm not sure Kelly pulls the trigger on replacing Denbrock if you can win 10 games this year. On the one hand, you can get a better coach. On the other, you're winning. To me, it's not a tough call. You have a program willing ot get the best available so go out there and get him.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:26 pm to Here for the Heist
It would be nice to take advantage of the WRs on the roster. I think the QB play is hamstringing that.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:28 pm to linewar
I fully expect ND to become irrelevant in football in my lifetime, no different than the ivy league schools. You can't do this delicate balancing act that they've been doing for years. Somethings gotta give.
ND did the right thing not joining the ACC, IMO. They are not in a good spot right now and with USC/UCLA joining the BIG, it probably makes that a more desireable landing spot for them if they want to go that route.
If they join the BIG, I may take you up on the offer.
ND did the right thing not joining the ACC, IMO. They are not in a good spot right now and with USC/UCLA joining the BIG, it probably makes that a more desireable landing spot for them if they want to go that route.
If they join the BIG, I may take you up on the offer.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:32 pm to Here for the Heist
Quality post.
But ND isn’t running with the same horses LSU is. You win champions at LSU on talent alone.
The structure and culture is all we need. And BK brings that.
But ND isn’t running with the same horses LSU is. You win champions at LSU on talent alone.
The structure and culture is all we need. And BK brings that.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:42 pm to chrome_daddy
We are a shite show but we play to our competition, and I think Clemson may be in for a game. We have nothing to lose, it's at home, night game and it could be a cold November night.
The south is undisputed king of football when it comes to talent and fans but the cold is truly an x factor. I played college ball, was born/raised in cold weather and hated playing in the cold. Used to get my balls busted by everyone b/c I was always huddled up with the southerners trying to stay warm.
Clemson is better than ND but they are overrated and if it's 20 degrees at kickoff, they'll struggle with the environment/cold. Maybe it's enough to take out Dabo's boys.
The south is undisputed king of football when it comes to talent and fans but the cold is truly an x factor. I played college ball, was born/raised in cold weather and hated playing in the cold. Used to get my balls busted by everyone b/c I was always huddled up with the southerners trying to stay warm.
Clemson is better than ND but they are overrated and if it's 20 degrees at kickoff, they'll struggle with the environment/cold. Maybe it's enough to take out Dabo's boys.
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:45 pm to Here for the Heist
Posted on 10/24/22 at 2:54 pm to TigerAttorney
quote:
You win champions at LSU on talent alone.
This is the interesting aspect of BK at LSU. You may be the only team in recent memory that has won titles in spite of your coaching. You were just that god damn good, especially O's team. I don't remember the team Miles won with all that well but I can't imagine his brilliance took you to the promise land.
Not a fan of Miles but I really loved O and it was just a spectacle watching him/LSU the year you won it. Could be the best team I've ever seen. That'll be an interesting trivia question years from now. Who coached the greatest college football team ever? Coach Ed Orgeron!
Kelly will sustain success but it's no given he will win a title. I think it's more likely than not based on your history but we'll see.
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