- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: LSU is not a rebuild. LSU hired O to avoid a rebuild.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:46 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:46 am to SlowFlowPro
and Canada could also prove the flawed theory of the whole thing
I'm not ready to pass judgement on him this early obviously, but lets see it turns out he is a bad fit. This whole thing collapses before take off. With O your always one bad hire away from turmoil
I'm not ready to pass judgement on him this early obviously, but lets see it turns out he is a bad fit. This whole thing collapses before take off. With O your always one bad hire away from turmoil
1
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:46 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I was simply addressing the idea you can hire to avoid a rebuild
that wasn't what i was saying, fwiw
the O hire was sold to fans for continuity purposes, because we were NOT in a position that required a rebuild
that was either a lie or Alleva is too stupid to understand how wrong he was
quote:
Hell, Bama hired Saban and it was a rebuild
and like i said earlier in this thread, had we admitted where we were and our AD had actually done his job, we would have gone with a legitimate coach who would have to rebuild and this year would suck. that's acceptable and likely what was necessary
we went halfway and it's likely not going to solve the problems that necessitate our rebuild while also not providing the elite coaching required of winning championships. we're going to be mediocore and trending downward
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:48 am to BilJ
quote:
I'm not ready to pass judgement on him this early obviously, but lets see it turns out he is a bad fit. This whole thing collapses before take off. With O your always one bad hire away from turmoil
i made this point over and over again in the offseason
the scary part is that O may not fully recognize when things are going south and he has to fire his coordinators
then somehow if he does, does he have the coaching intelligence to recognize what direction we need to go in?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
other than continuity, we were sold this neo-CFB strategy of de-valing the HC and using the extra money to pay coordinators and shadow staff and THAT was how we're going to beat Bama. it was this brilliant new philosophy that was going to revolutionize CFB
Which was always stupid.
If we have good coordinators and a shadow staff how are we going to beat a team that has good coordinators, a shadow staff AND NICK SABAN?
You cannot match the accumulation of human capital that good teams have if your HC offers nothing in terms of strategy.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:49 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
What do you suggest we, as fans, do? I guarantee for the majority of fans O wasn't our first choice. We also agree Alleva is the problem.
Other than stop going to games or donating, there really is no course of action since O is 3 games in.
We also recognize that there are some significant roster issues that any coach would be dealing with right now. Youth and lack of depth are not a recipe for success in this league.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:51 am to ShortyRob
quote:
How does a coach "avoid" a rebuild?
I mean, I opposed the O hire, but what does the new hire have to do with a rebuild?
Either a team has talent holes or it doesn't.
You can't hire your way out of that
Well, in theory, a new coach is installing a new philosophy, finding the right personnel and players to run that philosophy long term, so you aren't avoiding a rebuild, but the repercussions of rebuilding, a down season or two, are acceptable.
In this case, one of these happened:
1) This was always going to be a rebuilding year and O/Alleva not only lied, but Alleva hired a guy who doesn't necessarily have the chops to rebuild. This invalidates the "Anyone can coach LSU to championships narrative," and probably the "Les Miles is a bad coach" narrative.
2) This was never a rebuild, O and Alleva told the truth, but that means a 30-point loss to MSU makes this look like an odd way to keep the ship moving in a similar trajectory. O's coordinator-focused plan is already showing cracks, and we'll sit in the same limbo of more 9-3/8-4 seasons with a coach who doesn't coach. Miles left the cupboard full-ish, BUT it may be clear sooner rather than later that O is not as good as Miles and probably never competes for a NC.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:56 am to Mohican
quote:
I guarantee for the majority of fans O wasn't our first choice.
He shouldn't haven't been a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. choice.
quote:
Other than stop going to games or donating, there really is no course of action since O is 3 games in.
That is what can make this real depressing for those still passionate for the program.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:56 am to SlowFlowPro
Anyone thinking this team was a SEC Championship caliber team on paper, is Football Stupid.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that wasn't what i was saying, fwiw
the O hire was sold to fans for continuity purposes, because we were NOT in a position that required a rebuild
that was either a lie or Alleva is too stupid to understand how wrong he was
Yup
quote:
and like i said earlier in this thread, had we admitted where we were and our AD had actually done his job, we would have gone with a legitimate coach who would have to rebuild and this year would suck. that's acceptable and likely what was necessary
we went halfway and it's likely not going to solve the problems that necessitate our rebuild while also not providing the elite coaching required of winning championships. we're going to be mediocore and trending downward
Pretty much along the lines with what I am thinking.
This is why, I think, it's massively frustrating for some of us and we we keep hammering some of these points. This entire situation literally makes 0 sense from any logical standpoint. There's a huge miscalculation here that just doesn't align with what is going on.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:57 am to NIH
quote:
Wasn't Orgeron hired to keep the talent in hand?
He did! We have one of the best freshman classes ever. You people are so fricking stupid.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
he O hire was sold to fans for continuity purposes, because we were NOT in a position that required a rebuild
This is what I don't understand. the hard part is ripping off the Band Aid and firing your coach. For example, Texas clung to Mack Brown for years, and they went sub 500. LSU actually never dipped below 8 wins and was still cranking out 5-3 SEC seasons, which is still ahead of league average, by definition.
So you fire the coach to prevent further decline and you... hire essentially the same staff? Yeah, you brought in a new OC, but the majority of the staff was here last year, hardly a major teardown. This is like saying, this program is in decline and we're going to make a major move to prevent further rot by bringing back nearly everyone responsible for the current situation. It makes no sense.
If you've made the decision to fire the coach, you have to commit to bringing in new blood. Not bring back the gang and promote from within. You promote from within when everything is going well and you want continuity. But LSU DIDN'T want continuity or else it wouldn't have fired Miles. But in its hire, they went back to it.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:00 am to RB10
quote:they were wrong
This is the question. The fans, Alleva and the board were sold on the fact that LSU has the talent in place so there was not rebuild. It was just more of a "re-tooling".
quote:
A 30 point loss to MSU later and now LSU has major issues and needs two years, minimum, to right the ship. There's a disconnect somewhere
I think two years might be overly pessimistic.
But, I mean, like it or not, we are damned deficient at DT. Fairly deficient at OL. And, I mean, let's face it. Our QB is a Purdue castoff and his backups are both 18 years old. The guys who aren't 18 are people that were both desperation schollies and one transferred.
None of that is to defend O. 37-7 is egregious.
But, no hire was going to change our QB, OL and DT realities overnight.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:02 am to tigerfoot
No we lost Neal and Godchaux both NFL talents.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:02 am to Baloo
quote:
the hard part is ripping off the Band Aid and firing your coach.
yeah but does the replacement talk like us?
killer variable that matters in terms of CFB results on the field
quote:
So you fire the coach to prevent further decline and you... hire essentially the same staff?
same staff + an inferior coach
quote:
If you've made the decision to fire the coach, you have to commit to bringing in new blood. Not bring back the gang and promote from within. You promote from within when everything is going well and you want continuity. But LSU DIDN'T want continuity or else it wouldn't have fired Miles. But in its hire, they went back to it.
100%
like i said it feels like we are getting the bad parts of a rebuild without any of the positives
does anyone honestly think O is a coach suitable to rebuild a program like LSU? why? a Cajun accent only goes so far
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Fair enough. I would just like to say that I said last year I was worried about DL and OL and, I just flat found it embarrassing that fans didn't realize that absent Brennan or Narcisse showing up, our QB situation was a shite show behind Etling.
the O hire was sold to fans for continuity purposes, because we were NOT in a position that required a rebuild
quote:It was a lie. And, I know we like to beat up on Alleva, but I'm not convinced that the same stupid "money concerns" that kept us from firing Miles the year before weren't forced on Alleva again this go round forcing the cheap hire.
that was either a lie or Alleva is too stupid to understand how wrong he was
Either way, it was the wrong call.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
We've been rebuilding at QB since Perilloux!
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
no matter how much of a frick tard Les was, we all said, well most, that you don't fire him to accept 8-4 or 9-3 production. It's why he was canned.
This team is not winning more than 9 games in the regular season and i'm willing to take a ban bet on that.
This team is not winning more than 9 games in the regular season and i'm willing to take a ban bet on that.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:04 am to ShortyRob
quote:
But, I mean, like it or not, we are damned deficient at DT. Fairly deficient at OL. And, I mean, let's face it. Our QB is a Purdue castoff and his backups are both 18 years old. The guys who aren't 18 are people that were both desperation schollies and one transferred.
And you haven't even touched on the clusterfrick that is the WR position
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:05 am to Freauxzen
quote:
This is why, I think, it's massively frustrating for some of us and we we keep hammering some of these points. This entire situation literally makes 0 sense from any logical standpoint. There's a huge miscalculation here that just doesn't align with what is going on.
there are 2 groups
the posis who are just positigers and are optimistic people. you can't have a rational discussion with them b/c it's pointless. they defended Miles, now criticize Miles, and will refuse to criticize O for the very things they now criticize Miles for. why? b/c O is our coach
then there is the pro-O faction. they're always going to have a chip on their shoulders about this b/c they have bought into the persecution complex. they will think that people criticize O for who he is (one of us!) and not for his coaching results. lucky for me, i'm half cajun so i don't have to fear these identity-based attacks
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:05 am to Freauxzen
quote:
1) This was always going to be a rebuilding year and O/Alleva not only lied, but Alleva hired a guy who doesn't necessarily have the chops to rebuild. This invalidates the "Anyone can coach LSU to championships narrative," and probably the "Les Miles is a bad coach" narrative
I was saying this LAST year! But, frankly, the Miles sycophants couldn't come to terms with the reality that you can't have complete shite offenses in perpetuity and it not affect recruiting. And the Miles haters hated Miles so much they wanted to believe he was shitting the bed with fantastic talent.
Reality was that
1. Miles underperformed
2. Recruits started to notice
3. He performed worse
4. He got fired
Page 13 of 39
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News