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(Long) Is the “Orgeron method” the future of head coaching hires?

Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:02 pm
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:02 pm
Let me preface this by saying that Alleva absolutely backed into the Orgeron hire working out as well as it has so far after missing on literally everyone that he wanted, but could an Orgeron-style hire be the safest, most consistent way to go about a head coaching hire in the current college landscape?

I was watching football all day Saturday and couldn’t help but see extremely mixed results from high-dollar superstar hire guys like Chip Kelly, Jimbo Fisher, James Franklin, Urban Meyer, Tom Herman, etc. and I was thinking of reasons why some of them are succeeding while others are generally looking like shite or flat out underperforming while Ed Orgeron is killing it, and I really don’t think that the current state of college football is conducive to spending $8MM/year on a head coach.

The game has gotten to a point that you can have 37 analysts doing what used to be arguably the HC’s most important job- overseeing game planning and analyzing opposing teams. Pair that with the recent superinflated prices for a high-tier head coach, and you’re basically spending $5,000,000+ extra per year on a glorified administrator who may or may not have massive ego problems.

I honestly think that starting in the last decade, investing in having elite position coaches and coordinators is far more important and money-efficient than having a head coach to basically be an extra OC or DC, and having the extra money that we saved on Orgeron’s salary to dole out to guys like Aranda, Craig, Sullivan, and McMahon is huge. Having Jimbo, Herman, or anyone not named Nick Saban for $6MM/year or more would NOT be a good hypothetical trade for those 4 guys if we lost them due to overpaying for, say, Jimbo, and got stuck with lesser coordinators and position coaches.

SUMMARY: We can hire analysts and superstar coordinators to do the head coach’s job so it’s pointless to spend 8 times more than an elite coordinator’s salary, or 16 times more than an elite position coach’s salary, on a high-tier-but-not-homerun X’s and O’s HC when you can instead get a guy who’s an elite motivator, recruiter, and has the ability and knowledge to give structure to the program and lock down an important position like the D-line or O-line, and I think that a lot of programs lately are screwing themselves by going all out financially on a HC and having to get crappy bargain bin coordinators because they run out of money on the HC’s salary.


Curious to hear everyone else’s opinion on this. Burrow’s interview comments about analysts really got me thinking about it again today
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:04 pm
Posted by MC5601
Tyler, Texas
Member since Jan 2010
3890 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:04 pm to
No.
Posted by jbraua
Oklahoma City, OK
Member since Oct 2007
6794 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:05 pm to
can you do a tl;dr version?
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:06 pm to
It’s at the bottom
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
21785 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:07 pm to
Maybe if he hires a solid replacement for Miles’ DC and if E is as successful with his own QB instead of Meyer’s more schools will try it.


Of course O will be looking for a huge raise if he does all if that, so there won’t be as much money for coordinators and the model won’t really stay as is anyway.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:08 pm
Posted by noonan
Nassau Bay, TX
Member since Aug 2005
36903 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:07 pm to
We don't even know if the "Orgeron Method" is going to work. And we won't really know for another year or two when we start losing coordinators.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24548 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

SUMMARY: We can hire analysts and superstar coordinators to do the head coach’s job


frick !!!

Or in Spanish fricko !!!

So a football team does not need a head coach?

What Eaux has done needs to be argued away by nitwits like you who don't know football.

What a fricking idiot !!!
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:10 pm
Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:10 pm to
Spending huge money on lateral hires is a risky strategy that rarely works out well. There's the obvious exceptions (Saban, for one), but paying a huge slaary to entice a guy to move to your school means the move has to work, as you've invested so much money into it.

While I wouldn't recommend going the "Orgeron method" of hiring from within or from a pool of failed former head coaches, I would say you should try to hire up and coming coaches who have not made their name yet, and thus don't cost you as much. Of course, this requires your AD to be smart enough to identify an up and coming talent like, say, Purdue did with Brohm. Or LSU did when it hired Sabam (technically a lateral hire, but he was still a small name).

Give your AD a chance to make a wrong choice without it wrecking your entire program. Try to identify slightly less expensive coaches. They perform just as well, if not better, than those high priced lateral moves.
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

Maybe if he hires a solid replacement for Aranda and if E is as successful with his own QB instead of Meyer’s more schools will try it

I’m unhappy with Ensminger being our offensive coordinator FWIW. I don’t mean literally hiring Ed Orgeron and Steve E, I’m talking more about schools getting head coaches on the cheap and overspending on elite coordinators. I’d much rather have ten elite coordinators and position coaches and a mediocre head coach than an elite head coach and ten mediocre coordinators and position coaches.
Posted by Bert Macklin FBI
Quantico
Member since May 2013
8970 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:15 pm to
Issue with your hypothesis is that once O wins (either makes playoffs or puts together consecutive 10+ win seasons) you have to pay him.

So the discount HC only stands firm for so long.

Not to mention there aren’t many guys in O’s position where they have a terrible resume as a HC and are willing to take a discount for another chance.
Posted by NawlinsTiger9
Where the mongooses roam
Member since Jan 2009
34901 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:16 pm to
The O method has moderate early success as long as the Aranda method is there, too.
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

What Eaux has done needs to be argued away by nitwits like you who don't know football

Sure thing, effeminate sports writer who works in the LSU athletic department as Orgeron’s designated bitch and has never played a snap of football in his life. Leave this thread to the guys who don’t fluff Orgeron’s sack for a living
Posted by Jack Daniel
In the bottle
Member since Feb 2013
25476 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:18 pm to
No. If you have “great” coordinators you will lose then after 2-3 years and what are the odds to continue to hire great coordinators? Which also means a new offense of defense every 2-3 years.
Posted by Goldrush25
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
33794 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:18 pm to
quote:

frick !!! Or in Spanish fricko !!! So a football team does not need a head coach? What Eaux has done needs to be argued away by nitwits like you who don't know football. What a fricking idiot !!!


If you can't conduct yourself in a civil manner I'll have to ask you to leave the thread.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:25 pm
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16919 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

I was watching football all day Saturday and couldn’t help but see extremely mixed results from high-dollar superstar hire guys like Chip Kelly, Jimbo Fisher, James Franklin, Urban Meyer, Tom Herman, etc. and I was thinking of reasons why some of them are succeeding while others are generally looking like shite or flat out underperforming while Ed Orgeron is killing it, and I really don’t think that the current state of college football is conducive to spending $8MM/year on a head coach.


If Orgeron continues to "kill it," how much do you think he's going to command on his next contract? If he turns into a high demand coach, then we will either have to pay him high demand money or someone else will and we will be looking for a new head coach again. Your entire premise makes absolutely no sense to me.
Posted by Dizz
Member since May 2008
14734 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

couldn’t help but see extremely mixed results from high-dollar superstar hire guys like Chip Kelly, Jimbo Fisher, James Franklin, Urban Meyer, Tom Herman,


Everyone has mixed results when measured against Saban which is what everyone does now. Kelly and Fisher and both in their first year and Texas may likely go 10-2. Urban Meyer may still make the playoffs. When Saban is the measuring stick a 2 loss year looks like a failure.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24548 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

Sure thing, effeminate sports writer who works in the LSU athletic department as Orgeron’s designated bitch and has never played a snap of football in his life. Leave this thread to the guys who don’t fluff Orgeron’s sack for a living


this coming from an idiot who thinks 7-1 and #4 in the nation needs your idiotic input on coaching.

I can't wait to read more of you fricked up brilliance. It will be as awe inspiring as your OP, I'm sure.

Smacker fricking Miles has more football knowledge and common sense than you.
This post was edited on 10/30/18 at 3:25 pm
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

Issue with your hypothesis is that once O wins (either makes playoffs or puts together consecutive 10+ win seasons) you have to pay him. So the discount HC only stands firm for so long. Not to mention there aren’t many guys in O’s position where they have a terrible resume as a HC and are willing to take a discount for another chance

Why? Take LSU and Orgeron out of it and just look at it as a general system. Hypothetically, you hire a guy as the HC to handle administrative duties, being a program figurehead, and recruiting, and pay top dollar to hire highly elite coordinators, analysts, and position coaches to handle the X’s and O’s. If it works and we win and the HC wants more, let him walk to a program that’s dumb enough to pay more and retain the important people I.E. position coaches and coordinators.

I’m just saying that people thought Orgeron would fail because he’s the HC but not the most vital X’s and O’s coach on staff but it’s working pretty well so far. Could be on to something. I know that this thread is going to trigger dipshit crybabies like Tiger Ree but I just thought it was something interesting to discuss
Posted by TigerClique21
Member since Sep 2018
426 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:26 pm to
Bobby Bowden did it for years at FSU. Eventually it will catch up with you. Coach O win Saturday and make the playoffs he will get at least 7 to 8 million dollars per year.
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 10/30/18 at 3:27 pm to
I’m actually lobbying for Ed Orgeron. I get that you’re too stupid to see that and you have some kind of emotional investment to making sure that he gets ALL of the credit, but kindly shut the frick up and get out of my thread
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