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re: Is Mainieri on the hot seat for next year?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:20 pm to Joe Joe Joe
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:20 pm to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
Off the bat, I think you're comparing apples and oranges in terms basketball and baseball.
you brought it up so addressed it
quote:
I think it's a very convoluted argument you're trying to make in justifying how difficult it is to win the SEC baseball championship compared to an SEC basketball championship.
based on the talent from the top to the bottom eat is more difficult for us to win a SEC baseball championship, then it is for Kentucky to win a SEC basketball championship.
quote:
I'd argue we are way past the point, as a program, where we should care about SEC Championships. Once you've won a National Championship in any sport, are conference championships still the measure of success? In football and basketball, probably because they haven't had the consistent and extensive success that baseball has. But for baseball, it's hard for me to think of SEC Championships as indicative, alone, as indicative of successful seasons.
not but calling for a coaches head after winning the SEC championship is also beyond stupid.
quote:
I think it's a bit premature to state that, based solely on their performance this year, Kentucky and Miss. St are primed to compete for SEC Championships year in, year out. Also, Arkansas hasn't won a championship since 2004 so I'm not sure how you can legitimately argue they can compete for a championship every year. If you remove those teams, you've basically highlighted the same number of teams that can or are expected to win the SEC Championship
ok your correct, but I also don't see how you think that it is the case that SEC basketball is competitive as SEC baseball. SEC basketball is like the big east in football, we just aren't that good. Kentucky is great every year, and every once and a while a team challenges them.
in baseball 3 or 4 teams EVERY YEAR fight for the top seed into the last weekend, and all but 4 teams are in a possible race for the Title within a few weeks of the end of the season.
quote:
I think it's a bit premature to state that, based solely on their performance this year, Kentucky and Miss. St are primed to compete for SEC Championships year in, year out. Also, Arkansas hasn't won a championship since 2004 so I'm not sure how you can legitimately argue they can compete for a championship every year. If you remove those teams, you've basically highlighted the same number of teams that can or are expected to win the SEC Championship
you are correct overstatement a little bit but the teams I mentioned are alteast in the race every year. Plus Arkansas has been a pretty good team sense 2004 they have made to Omaha a couple of times and are always fighting for the top stop in the West.
Mississippi State has a storied history.
Kentucky looks like an amazing squad for the future
quote:
I think that's debatable.
not really SEC baseball is the toughest conference in the country in the baseball world. SEC basketball is like the Pac 10 in football back in the mid 2000s when only USC was good, or the Big 12 before the schools like OK state, T Tech, Baylor had great years.
SEC basketball just has no comparison to the likes of the ACC the Big East, the Big Ten in basketball. Kentucky will always be the best team in the SEC and will probably win it almost every year.
Baseball isn't the same. If you win back to back SEC regular season titles, you are one good team.
quote:
Imagine if Mainieri was just winning SEC titles every year but never made Omaha. Would people be happy with that? Sure, we'd have SEC titles, but no trips to Omaha. At the very least, I think it would indicate that his talent or coaching wasn't meeting expectations if he was good enough to win the SEC (which is inarguably the toughest conference) but not good enough to make Omaha (which normally requires you not even having to play another SEC team).
not going to happen baseball is way to difficult to win year after year after year. I agree that making omaha is the ultimate goal and if we go year after year after year of not making omaha many people wouldn't be happy. But you fail to realize how much better this team has gotten over the span of one year. There is absolutely
1
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:22 pm to Bayoufightingtiger
quote:
He admitted publicly he was not as hands as he was when he got here. Would of canned him then for not fulfilling his obligation of a coach. Would your boss keep you around if you admitted slacking off at work regardless of what success you had before? First 2 years Omaha bound. Since then, no Omaha and admitted to slacking off. Hot seat? You damn right he is.
link?
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:33 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
you brought it up so addressed it
I was making a comparison regarding expectations and a program's prestige. Not an actual comparison between the ability to win the SEC in baseball vs. that ability in basketball.
quote:
not but calling for a coaches head after winning the SEC championship is also beyond stupid.
I never did this. So you've either got me confused for someone else or you've mistaken what I've said.
quote:
Mississippi State has a storied history.
Kentucky looks like an amazing squad for the future
Miss. St hasn't won a regular season championship since 1989. At least Kentucky has won one recently. But I'm reserving judgment on Kentucky until I see them do it for another year.
quote:
Baseball isn't the same. If you win back to back SEC regular season titles, you are one good team.
We haven't done that under Mainieri and certainly haven't done in in the past 2 years so I'm not sure the legitimacy of this comment.
quote:
not going to happen baseball is way to difficult to win year after year after year.
Again, I was speaking abstractly to prove my point and counter yours. People are suggesting that we should be happy with SEC Championships. I offered the example of winning nothing but SEC Championships without ever making Omaha as an argument to illustrate the absurdity of basing a season's success only SEC Championships.
quote:
But you fail to realize how much better this team has gotten over the span of one year.
If anything, this team regressed towards the end of the season. Also, I refuse to claim that a team improved when its comparison is to the previous year's team that didn't even make the postseason. Still doesn't answer the question regarding the depletion of talent.
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 8:37 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
link?
quote:
“I think one of the mistakes I made that I am going to take responsibility for is that I probably delegated too much,” said the coach.
Mainieri continued that since LSU’s 2009 national championship, he feels he hasn’t been hands on quite enough in many aspects of the program.
“When we got back from the World Series in ‘09, I had so many requests for speaking engagements and appearances here and there. My head was spinning. My calendar was full,” said Mainieri. “A lot of times I was late getting back to the field for practice even, and I just feel like I kind of lost a little bit of contact with our players that I think is so critical to have. In order to do that, I had to delegate more and more, and I need to be more involved. I need to be more involved in recruiting. I need to be more involved in every aspect of play on the field.”
LINK
This post was edited on 6/18/12 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 6/18/12 at 9:52 pm to Skooter
quote:
The talent they refer to is what we have coming back from this year.
Only helps if you can continue to get better, and judging from folks like Jacoby Jones that isn't necessarily a given.
Also losing is going to hurt, it was nice having a near automatic win on Friday nights.
I really think a lot of the problems could be remedied by giving Javi the boot.......if you don't think our approach at the plate this year was putrid, you have absolutely no idea what you are looking at.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 9:53 pm to Joe Joe Joe
fine he had to many speaking engagements team is still fine. He noticed his mistake and is fixing it.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 10:10 pm to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
quote:
“I think one of the mistakes I made that I am going to take responsibility for is that I probably delegated too much,” said the coach.
Mainieri continued that since LSU’s 2009 national championship, he feels he hasn’t been hands on quite enough in many aspects of the program.
“When we got back from the World Series in ‘09, I had so many requests for speaking engagements and appearances here and there. My head was spinning. My calendar was full,” said Mainieri. “A lot of times I was late getting back to the field for practice even, and I just feel like I kind of lost a little bit of contact with our players that I think is so critical to have. In order to do that, I had to delegate more and more, and I need to be more involved. I need to be more involved in recruiting. I need to be more involved in every aspect of play on the field.”
This quote really pissed me off and it should piss all of you off as well. That being said, he has earned the right to fix the problem. I can't see him getting fired under any baseball circumstance next year. However, the "not going to Omaha" argument is legit. Kentucky hoops got tired of being just a "sweet 16" team under Tubby. I think LSU baseball people will only accept that for so long.
I agree, it could get interesting. Next year at this time we will know how interesting.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 10:47 pm to LSU92
Good that our expectations are high - just try to understand that they are also a little unrealisitc.
Top 10 teams this year that are also stunned to not make it to Omaha: Oregon, Texas A&M, Rice, North Carolina, Baylor, Kentucky
Traditional powers that had truly "down" years: Texas, CS Fullerton, Miami. Did USCw even have a winning record? When was the last time they or Arizona State made Omaha? Stanford goes, what, every 5 years?
This team had Gausman and Rhymes but otherwise overachieved with this talent. Recruiting is fickle. Florida's team has been good the last few years because of one epic recruiting class. Tanner clearly has the ability to make his teams perform in the postseason (just as Skip did). Our coaching and recruiting are trending positive from last year - CPM will get us back to Omaha next year and all will be right with the world.
Top 10 teams this year that are also stunned to not make it to Omaha: Oregon, Texas A&M, Rice, North Carolina, Baylor, Kentucky
Traditional powers that had truly "down" years: Texas, CS Fullerton, Miami. Did USCw even have a winning record? When was the last time they or Arizona State made Omaha? Stanford goes, what, every 5 years?
This team had Gausman and Rhymes but otherwise overachieved with this talent. Recruiting is fickle. Florida's team has been good the last few years because of one epic recruiting class. Tanner clearly has the ability to make his teams perform in the postseason (just as Skip did). Our coaching and recruiting are trending positive from last year - CPM will get us back to Omaha next year and all will be right with the world.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 10:58 pm to West Bank Dan
quote:
Good that our expectations are high - just try to understand that they are also a little unrealisitc.
I don't think making Omaha once every 4 years is unrealistic although you make some valid points.
However, outside of Texas and maybe South Carolina, no one has the resources we currently have. So it's hard for me to accept that other "top" programs didn't go to Omaha either. Quite simply, LSU isn't like the majority of those other "top" programs.
quote:
When was the last time they or Arizona State made Omaha?
ASU made it in 2009 and 2010.
quote:Stanford in 2008.
Stanford goes, what, every 5 years?
quote:The problem is not overachieving. The problem is with the talent level being where it was. There's nothing fickle about failing to recruit well after winning a National Championship 3 years after.
This team had Gausman and Rhymes but otherwise overachieved with this talent. Recruiting is fickle
quote:I hope so, but he still remains accountable for the past 3 years and allowing it slide after winning it all. Great coaches don't let that happen.
Our coaching and recruiting are trending positive from last year - CPM will get us back to Omaha next year and all will be right with the world.
Posted on 6/18/12 at 11:36 pm to LSUfanaddict
Posters like you are why I rarely come to the rant.
Posted on 6/19/12 at 8:31 am to catholictigerfan
I agree. I did notice watching last nite's game Ark vs USC that they played in a close game (2-1) like we did all year long,we got cold for one weekend and it cost us Omaha. we took 5 out of 6 games from both these teams and they were all close. We will be back next year in the CWS. We need a few new players to come through and we will be fine. 
Posted on 6/19/12 at 9:25 am to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
First off, you are proving my point and discrediting your own because those are paid attendance, not actual attendance, figures.Second, even assuming your point (that people vote with their feet and a decline would justify a move) is valid, let me ask you one simple question based on those numbers. If those numbers are relevant, then why did we only average 36 people more at games in 2000, when we won a National Championship, than in 2006, when Laval was fired?
Actually, it proves both of my points, that 1) Manieri aint going anywhere when we're selling 10,000+ tickets a game and 2) Smoke was fired after three straight seasons of declining paid attendance (actual was probably even lower), especially when we were trying to build and fill up a new park. You can't just look at raw numbers, you have to look at the trends. College baseball has increased in popularity over the past decade, so the baseline is going to be going up. But, under Smoke, we were going the other way. Look what happened when we got a new park and a new coach. (3,000+ more/game, essentially revenue we were losing under Smoke)
And, for all the bitching and moaning about LSU, look what Florida did with all their talent--2 and a Q and eliminated by Kent State, which is arguably a worse team than Stony Brook. Baseball is a fickle game, which is why the two teams in the driver's seats in Omaha weren't even national seeds.
This post was edited on 6/19/12 at 9:41 am
Posted on 6/19/12 at 10:13 am to RockChalkTiger
I don't think PM will be on the hotseat. I dont think there is a large enough portion of the fanbase upset about the Javi situation.
PM has another down year next year maybe there will be some heat from the fans regarding Javi. If Javi is let go that buys him another 2 years.
PM has another down year next year maybe there will be some heat from the fans regarding Javi. If Javi is let go that buys him another 2 years.
Posted on 6/19/12 at 10:29 am to Joe Joe Joe
You said a team like Kentucky isn't satisfied with second championships so neither should we
But Kentucky is a man amoung boys in sec basketball
Baseball is different and talent wise more like football 3 to 4 teams fight for title every year, if you win you did against atleast 2 or 3 teams who could win a national title.
No baseball coach should be on a hot seat after winning the SEC
But Kentucky is a man amoung boys in sec basketball
Baseball is different and talent wise more like football 3 to 4 teams fight for title every year, if you win you did against atleast 2 or 3 teams who could win a national title.
No baseball coach should be on a hot seat after winning the SEC
Posted on 6/19/12 at 10:33 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
No baseball coach should be on a hot seat after winning the SEC
For the love of God, I never said he was on the hot seat following this year. All my comments have addressed what happens next year. I'm done with this topic if it's just going to be me repeating myself over and over again.
This post was edited on 6/19/12 at 10:34 am
Posted on 6/19/12 at 11:35 am to Joe Joe Joe
I misread your posts the amount you spoke criticism of cpm and LSU I swear you agreed with the OP mea culpa
Posted on 6/19/12 at 11:38 am to LSUfanaddict
No
Posted on 6/19/12 at 11:48 am to LSUfanaddict
No. however, the batting coach may be on the hot seat. 
Posted on 6/19/12 at 12:07 pm to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
There's nothing fickle about failing to recruit well after winning a National Championship 3 years after.
Very good points. Not arguing but clarifying my statement and saying what we all know - that college baseball recruiting is fickle in that your class can be gutted at the last minute. Will be interesting how the earlier deadline rule change this year might change that. Every team can play the "what if" game but if CPM had been able to keep just 1-2 players from pro ball the last 2 years we wouldn't be debating if he should be on the hot seat. This year's class is projecting to stick a little better although we'd all love to see ~4-5 more legit hitters coming in.
Posted on 6/19/12 at 1:14 pm to Joe Joe Joe
quote:
If you're more interested in being a jackass, I guess that's fine, too.
No, au contraire triple jo. Your opinion is just that your opinion. Meaningless to most everyone else. You've stated that the SEC championship baseball team was not a very good team; you pretty much lost all credibility with that point of view, aka your opinion. You opened the can of worms by being overtly obtuse; deal with it.
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