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re: How Clemson's DB's Picked Off Tua Last Year and Stopped the Quick Slant - - Eyes on Tua
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:22 pm to crazy4lsu
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:22 pm to crazy4lsu
Did you bother looking at Herbstreit's analysis? How the DB fooled Tua with the man-to-man look, then had "eyes on Tua"?
At this point you are playing word games, IMO.
At this point you are playing word games, IMO.
This post was edited on 11/5/19 at 6:23 pm
2
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:42 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
Yes I looked at it. I don't think the DB's eyes had anything to do with Smith appearing to block him. Don't you find it strange that Smith would run the risk of a penalty for blocking when it appears no one else is blocking? Look at what Smith does. It makes no sense given the context of the play. If Smith was supposed to run a slant, I'd wager that the play would have been broken up by Terrell, as Terrell did break on the space very early. Herbstreit doesn't talk about Smith at all or his curious movement.
You are the one who brought up how looking at Tua took away the quick slants, but Bama completed slants after this play, and could have completed more, like the play in the 3rd quarter where Jeudy was on the shortside of the field and ran an out, but was held at the line of scrimmage pretty blatantly. The backside slant was open on that play. The slant was also open on the RPO that Bama ran with :12 seconds remaining in the 3rd quarter, but the pass was batted down at the line. I believe the play in the 3rd where Ruggs got a hand to the ball was also a slant. There was another slant that was completed to Waddle in the 3rd too.
You put slants in the title, and I'm looking for slants. I just don't think your point about slants is true. I'm just going by what you said in the OP, which was that by looking at Tua they were able to take away the quick slant. But I just found multiple instances of Bama running slants successfully.
quote:
At this point you are playing word games, IMO.
You are the one who brought up how looking at Tua took away the quick slants, but Bama completed slants after this play, and could have completed more, like the play in the 3rd quarter where Jeudy was on the shortside of the field and ran an out, but was held at the line of scrimmage pretty blatantly. The backside slant was open on that play. The slant was also open on the RPO that Bama ran with :12 seconds remaining in the 3rd quarter, but the pass was batted down at the line. I believe the play in the 3rd where Ruggs got a hand to the ball was also a slant. There was another slant that was completed to Waddle in the 3rd too.
You put slants in the title, and I'm looking for slants. I just don't think your point about slants is true. I'm just going by what you said in the OP, which was that by looking at Tua they were able to take away the quick slant. But I just found multiple instances of Bama running slants successfully.
Posted on 11/5/19 at 6:46 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
How about just beating the shite out of their wideouts at the LOS? That’s exactly what they will try to do to us.
Be ready for a heavy dose of 22 and 24.
Be ready for a heavy dose of 22 and 24.
Posted on 11/5/19 at 7:11 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
Ok let’s just pretend for a second that this is what Clemson did.
Do you really think Bama coaches aren’t aware and have coached Tua on this issue.
If this is what Clemson did and it worked, it probably won’t work again.
Do you really think Bama coaches aren’t aware and have coached Tua on this issue.
If this is what Clemson did and it worked, it probably won’t work again.
Posted on 11/5/19 at 7:21 pm to GumboPot
Thanks I'm still laughing. Hope little Nicky runs out of head sets Saturday lol.
Posted on 11/5/19 at 8:21 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
How do you cover a man if you’re not looking at him? 
This is ridiculous. I played touch/flag football for 30 years. It’s impossible. Now, you can steal a glance at the QB, but you have to see your man at all times. After all, while the Clemson DBs were supposedly looking at the QB, what if the receiver had run an out, or a fly?
I didn’t even see the game, but what I think happened was that Clemson took away the slants by shading them and jumping them. That opened up some other things, but Bama didn’t do a good job of exploiting them.
This is ridiculous. I played touch/flag football for 30 years. It’s impossible. Now, you can steal a glance at the QB, but you have to see your man at all times. After all, while the Clemson DBs were supposedly looking at the QB, what if the receiver had run an out, or a fly?
I didn’t even see the game, but what I think happened was that Clemson took away the slants by shading them and jumping them. That opened up some other things, but Bama didn’t do a good job of exploiting them.
Posted on 11/5/19 at 11:05 pm to Penrod
quote:K
How do you cover a man if you’re not looking at him?
This is ridiculous. I played touch/flag football for 30 years.
Zone vs Man mean anything to ("eyes on man" vs "eyes on QB")... No? Thought not:)
Thanks for confirming what I had suspected about you!
Posted on 11/5/19 at 11:09 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
Clemson didn’t have to beat the SEC refs.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:00 am to crazy4lsu
I went back and watched the 1st qtr and generally agree with your take.
However, on the int something happened because Tua was throwing to a WR who wasn't on the same page.
Beyond that, had one predicted the score at the end of the 1st I would have guessed 45+ Bama to 21 Clemson.
Clemson's QB had played like a true freshman to that point. He was I think 2-7. Tua was dropping dimes. Wasn't that Clemson had bad coverage. And Bama was running it well.
What swung the game was:
1) False start at 2nd goal from the 1. Led to a FG.
2) I think Clemson scored a TD on their next possession. I think that possession mess with Bama's psyche. They were not use to someone hitting back.
3) Tua's 2nd int.
All Clemson after that.
However, on the int something happened because Tua was throwing to a WR who wasn't on the same page.
Beyond that, had one predicted the score at the end of the 1st I would have guessed 45+ Bama to 21 Clemson.
Clemson's QB had played like a true freshman to that point. He was I think 2-7. Tua was dropping dimes. Wasn't that Clemson had bad coverage. And Bama was running it well.
What swung the game was:
1) False start at 2nd goal from the 1. Led to a FG.
2) I think Clemson scored a TD on their next possession. I think that possession mess with Bama's psyche. They were not use to someone hitting back.
3) Tua's 2nd int.
All Clemson after that.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:02 am to Buckeye Jeaux
Why are people always butthurt with OP
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:29 am to crazy4lsu
quote:Was the play not a WR screen?
Smith appears to be trying to block Terrell, which makes no sense
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:32 am to Buckeye Jeaux
Then comes the double move for 6 bc you looking to the QB and bite on the pump fake
Posted on 11/6/19 at 10:39 am to Buckeye Jeaux
quote:
Take another look. The DB was in press or near press until Tua made his pre-snap read.
The DB then took a few steps back, then clearly had eyes on Tua. & jumped the route as soon as it was out of Tua's hand. In this play, the DB showed man pre-snap, then slid into zone.
Note that Tua makes ZERO attempt at a post-snap read... it was grip-it-and-rip-it
Can't be for sure but it looks like a bracket coverage to me. If the inside WR runs a quick route outside the inside defender can make a cut call basically telling the outside guy to switch with him and take the out breaking route. It's a man to man concept with zone principles.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 11:00 am to Buckeye Jeaux
The proper way taught by the best secondary staff is to read the receivers hip...trying to read his face or looking at the QB will get you faked completely out of the play. You must anticipate the receivers break....looking at a lot of film will help on these breaks. Always get to the receiver before you look for the ball...I promise if you see the QB throw it, you will only see the receiver catch it and it is over.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 6:23 pm to Buddy Reed
Herbstreit explains the pick-6 in detail at 1:38 of linked vid. This move threw off Tua's timing for the rest of that game.
Herbstreit:
"Showed man to man; jumped out of it; completely fooled Tua"
"Terrel comes OFF of his man, His eyes are on the Quarterback"
LINK
Herbstreit:
"Showed man to man; jumped out of it; completely fooled Tua"
"Terrel comes OFF of his man, His eyes are on the Quarterback"
LINK
Posted on 11/6/19 at 6:40 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
I've wondered about this. You see it in the NFL...
Basically, like you said, lined up in man but the eyes are zone UNTIL slant is (or comeback/hook) is 'off table' then DB reverts to man for downfield.
I.e., the route determines the coverage and DB leverage post-snap, and it changes as the route tree dwindles, eliminating certain 'danger moves'.
NOTE: The most dangerous route if this is what we do (or shallow zone period) is the all the way across the formation (usually rub from bunch or tight). If they have time to cross multiple zones, especially both horizontally (short left to intermediate right). That's where 'a DB's BFF is a DT' comes in; pressure and that doesn't happen.
Basically, like you said, lined up in man but the eyes are zone UNTIL slant is (or comeback/hook) is 'off table' then DB reverts to man for downfield.
I.e., the route determines the coverage and DB leverage post-snap, and it changes as the route tree dwindles, eliminating certain 'danger moves'.
NOTE: The most dangerous route if this is what we do (or shallow zone period) is the all the way across the formation (usually rub from bunch or tight). If they have time to cross multiple zones, especially both horizontally (short left to intermediate right). That's where 'a DB's BFF is a DT' comes in; pressure and that doesn't happen.
Posted on 11/6/19 at 6:55 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 11/6/19 at 7:00 pm to I20goon
quote:
the most dangerous route if this is...
The other aspect to Tua's "money pass" is that he is throwing it in a split-second from the snap.
The WR has a full step or two in the DB (which is "game over" when the WR is a sub 4.4 40).
Clemson beat it by pretending man/man, but making the quick switch to more of a Zone, and getting eyes on Tua before the quick throw.
Stops the "insta-slant" and the "insta-out".
Posted on 11/6/19 at 8:17 pm to Buckeye Jeaux
This is accurate! In fact Saban has mentioned the fact that tua is making better reads than last year, because of that fact.
But..... I believe if we show a blitz look, tua goes straight back to pre snap thinking and throws hot, we should jump that!
Keep him guessing and eyes on tua!
But..... I believe if we show a blitz look, tua goes straight back to pre snap thinking and throws hot, we should jump that!
Keep him guessing and eyes on tua!
Posted on 11/6/19 at 8:19 pm to uway
Agreed. I think we can make him revert back by showing blitz presnap and jumping hot routes
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