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re: For all the “street ball” detractors- get to the PMAC asap
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:05 pm to ellessuuuu
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:05 pm to ellessuuuu
quote:CMM runs an offense with heavy side-to-side movement and ball screens. He is a lot more concerned with what players are doing when they don't have the ball to put other players in a position to score. It's a very different type of offense from CWW's, and, dare I say, will get more from mid-level talent than CWW's style of play.
Please define “street ball”? Is it not running “plays”?
Last night we scored on 7 out of 8 in-bounds "plays". There were specific objectives for various players to give a shooter a good look at the goal. We didn't have that kind of discipline with CWW's teams, but when you've got top-tier talent you don't need as much structure.
The only point I'm making is that these coaching styles are very different. The big question in my mind is will CMM's style pay big dividends when we do have top-tier talent? Personally, I've always enjoyed seeing well coached teams beat teams that obviously have better talent. Here's to hoping we get both with results.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 1:07 pm
1
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:16 pm to Madking
quote:And now we have a thread dedicated to it. Hahaha!!!
Anytime you see the term “street ball” you know the poster has no clue what they’re talking about and knows nothing about basketball.
What did I say a while back, they watch the movie Hoosiers and think they know basketball.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:16 pm to RoyalWe
You’re right about the ball reversal (side to side) sets but he runs that stuff to get KJ Williams touches on the post. McMahon said they actually run a lot of the same sets but McMahon puts a much higher priority on getting the ball to the post which I think Wade didn’t do enough of. On the inbounds I agree he’s been creative and purposeful but if you remember Wade’s first year he ran a lot of inbounds plays as well but then he stopped. The last one we ran yesterday, to Fountain, Wade ran that 90+% of the time after year one.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:18 pm to drizztiger
I mean seriously Drizz, all they’d need to do was put on a game from the last 5 years and see that he’s calling sets every possession outside of a fast break. Maybe that’s it, maybe they think transition offense is “street ball”. I didn’t think someone claiming to be a basketball fan could be that dumb but maybe that’s what you and I are missing.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:29 pm to HoopyD
he is great out of TO's. Score with play almost every time. Did have one beef with him last night. He kept running plays for Allen to shoot 3's.But they were starting to dominate inside and felt they should continue to go there as Winthrop only had 4 fouls late into 2nd half. A few misses let them back into the game with a couple of 3's. Felt they should have been pounding it inside at that time. Good to see Allen come out of his slump though. Going to need him big time in SEC play.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:33 pm to mcspufftiger7
Agree, you could tell their font line guys were sucking wind around the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd and couldn’t stop Williams. They should’ve been called for a lot more fouls, they were hacking KJ and Fountain but the Refs were terrible.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:33 pm to mcspufftiger7
quote:Pretty sure you mean Adam, if you want to edit.
Allen
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:42 pm to Madking
quote:I pretty much just laugh it off now.
Maybe that’s it, maybe they think transition offense is “street ball”. I didn’t think someone claiming to be a basketball fan could be that dumb but maybe that’s what you and I are missing.
I think it’s either to your point that it wouldn’t matter the coach as long as it’s not WW, or they don’t really watch much basketball at all, but have no hesitation chiming in with their opinions. Hence the generic streetball references, never mind actual and verifiable offensive efficiency statistics.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:46 pm to drizztiger
Hill needs to be demoted, he’s really our 3rd best lead guard but he’s a second unit player. Coleman should be playing more than Reed. I don’t know if the shoulder injury rumors are true but Wilkinson will have to play because Justice Williams is too small to play the 3 and doesn’t give you much in terms of production to justify his minutes. Trim the rotation from 10 to 8 and use your 9th and 10th guys as situational matchups with low minutes, 10 or less.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 1:48 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:07 pm to tigerbacon
Hire Wade back to head up recruiting and let MM coach! ???????It’s a thought!
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:21 pm to drizztiger
quote:It's not hard for anyone who has played or seriously paid attention to basketball to see that Wade wasn't a tactician. Our offensive "sets" under Wade were primarily a high ball screen, with very little other motion.
Hence the generic streetball references, never mind actual and verifiable offensive efficiency statistics.
Now that works fine with elite offensive talent (hence the efficiency stats you're referring to) but when faced with an equally elite defense, or when our offensive stars are in foul trouble, injured, or otherwise neutralized, you HAVE to have another way to get other players good looks, and that takes other offensive sets and schemes.
Wade simply didn't have that.
And anyone who paid attention could see it.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:24 pm to HoopyD
They lack defense which leads to points. You can set all the offense you want but if you can’t get stops, you’re screwed. This team lacks continuity on defense and rebounding. Maybe it doesn’t show up so much against much less talented teams but it will against those of equal and more.
This team will be LUCKY to win 18 games. MAYBE they make the NIT.
Don’t give me the lack of talent BS either. They don’t lack talent. They aren’t committed to defense and he doesn’t have the freshman playing or even Wilkinson who can play very good defense to spell other players. That depth is McMahans fault because there is depth. If he isn’t intelligent enough to play these guys now, they will never play against the better teams and they will get their doors blown off.
This team will be LUCKY to win 18 games. MAYBE they make the NIT.
Don’t give me the lack of talent BS either. They don’t lack talent. They aren’t committed to defense and he doesn’t have the freshman playing or even Wilkinson who can play very good defense to spell other players. That depth is McMahans fault because there is depth. If he isn’t intelligent enough to play these guys now, they will never play against the better teams and they will get their doors blown off.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:27 pm to atltiger6487
Like when Tremont Waters was out and our freshman 6th man stepped up and scored 29 points to clinch a conference championship for us?
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:29 pm to NeverGoodEnough
I care a lot less about the style of basketball than the effectiveness. There are many ways to play offense and defense while still winning. I will judge this coach using the same metrics as I have used on past coaches. If MM can build a consistently winning program, I will judge the hire positively.
That being said, there is scant evidence so far to judge. The schedule strength has been very weak. To my eyes, we look like a NIT team. This is backed by our recent Kenpom and NET ratings. Our conference results will determine our postseason plans. I hope the team pleasantly surprises me.
That being said, there is scant evidence so far to judge. The schedule strength has been very weak. To my eyes, we look like a NIT team. This is backed by our recent Kenpom and NET ratings. Our conference results will determine our postseason plans. I hope the team pleasantly surprises me.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:44 pm to atltiger6487
quote:I find this very disingenuous.
It's not hard for anyone who has played or seriously paid attention to basketball to see that Wade wasn't a tactician. Our offensive "sets" under Wade were primarily a high ball screen, with very little other motion.
quote:Efficiency stats are against all opponents played against and opponents played against, etc. It isn't some eye-ball test. Kenpom, again imo, has been great at designing those metrics.
Now that works fine with elite offensive talent (hence the efficiency stats you're referring to) but when faced with an equally elite defense, or when our offensive stars are in foul trouble, injured, or otherwise neutralized, you HAVE to have another way to get other players good looks, and that takes other offensive sets and schemes.
quote:And this is my conclusion, but in the opposite direction. WW consistently put up high efficiency offenses throughout talent changes.
Wade simply didn't have that.
And anyone who paid attention could see it.
The issue was defense prior to last season.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:57 pm to drizztiger
Exactly, Wade offense elevated a lot of sub par players as well as high end talent. You take a guy like Aaron Epps who did nothing until Wade got here and maximized him into a key contributor. Skylar Mays who wasn’t some elite talent who became a go to guy and NBA player. Even a Tari Eason who was a back to the basket spot player at Cincinnati and turned him into an upper 1st round pick by changing his role and maximizing his strengths. Darius Days was an offensive rebounder only when he got here but turned into a 3pt threat who was also next to automatic inside 15 feet or on the block. Who couldn’t play D at all but turned into a very good defender which resulted in him getting a shot at the next level. The list goes on but some fans would prefer a 2A catholic HS offense with 7 mandatory passes thinking that’s proper basketball or “fundamentals” because they ran that in the 90s at the HS level with no shot clock. It’s absurd.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 4:03 pm to drizztiger
quote:correct -- because he had NBA-level talent on his offenses. With playmakers/scorers like Waters, Cam Thomas, etc., it's easy to have high offensive efficiency.
And this is my conclusion, but in the opposite direction. WW consistently put up high efficiency offenses throughout talent changes.
It wasn't like Wade was a tactical genius who devised high level schemes to get good looks for those types of guys. The talent itself drove the offensive efficiency stats.
It's when the offensive talent is lacking that a coach really earns his money by utilizing different schemes/sets/matchups to maximize our output.
I didn't see that from Wade.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 4:06 pm to drizztiger
They don’t even bother to look at McMahon’s teams at Murray who averaged about the same ppg as Wade’s. The reason the offense has slowed isn’t because we’re more methodical, it’s personnel issues and the more changes have been made the better the offense has played. We scored 89 last night, 49 in the second half which is good vs anyone and the reason for that is because when the right group is out there the offense is better plain and simple.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 4:07 pm to atltiger6487
The first year under Wade with less talent and a tougher schedule we averaged more ppg than we do right now.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 4:29 pm to Madking
quote:I agree completely.
Exactly, Wade offense elevated a lot of sub par players as well as high end talent.
quote:I think this is a great example on multiple levels. WW targeting a player like Eason averaging 7ppg in the portal and coaching him into a 17ppg players and mid first round NBA pick.
Tari Eason
But WW is streetball, can't coach X's and O's, can't develop talent, he just buys players with his wife's checking account.
I honestly don't want all LSUBB threads to be about WW, but streetball idiocy is just mind numbing.
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