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Message
re: Eric Walker to start Sunday against Texas
Posted on 2/28/19 at 11:51 am to tigerfoot
Posted on 2/28/19 at 11:51 am to tigerfoot
quote:
These kids have not played travel ball in some time. The kids LSU recruits aren’t being coached by Dad after about 12
Are you really trying to split hairs on what the summer baseball they play is called?
Posted on 2/28/19 at 11:58 am to Hold That Tiger 10
Yes they are. But Travel is not truly what is going on. They aren’t shoeing up every other weekend thru July throwing Sat and Sunday w too many innings They aren’t playing as often and are doing showcase work. Most of the better kids I know that are playing are not throwing anywhere near as much in the summer as they are in high school.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 12:00 pm to ProjectP2294
Not on what it is called but the objectives are completely different. This allows for better control.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 12:10 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
Yes they are. But Travel is not truly what is going on. They aren’t shoeing up every other weekend thru July throwing Sat and Sunday w too many innings They aren’t playing as often and are doing showcase work
Pitching is still pitching, and they are doing a lot of it. I will say USSSA rules aren't really that bad. They do a good job of limiting innings in a weekend. Take Babe Ruth rules for example though, they can throw 7 innings every two games. So, they can throw 7,0,7,0,7,0 in a tournament over a few days. Or 4,3,4,3,4,3. That's a lot of pitching.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 1:55 pm to GeauxAggie972
quote:
I know a thing or two about this stuff, and the LSU injuries are definitely an anomaly
Well, you don't seem to know enough to post statistical comparisons. Do you have them? If not I suggest you replace "are definitely" with "seem to be".
Posted on 2/28/19 at 4:03 pm to ell_13
We have an epidemic,so to speak, of arm injuries from baseball nationwide. There are many, many factors. And it is being studied all over to come up with solutions.
Is over use in travel ball a problem? Yes
Are kids throwing that are not fully developed a problem? Yes
Are poor mechanics a problem? Yes
Is the way pitchers are prepared for the grind of a season a problem? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the program.
My son had TJ at the Andrews Clinic. 15 kids had the surgery the morning we were there. They told me that was a typical day of surgery there. It is all over.
LSU has had there fair share, maybe a few more than other places lately. But, my guess is that LSU's approach would be a minor factor in the occurrence of arm injuries.
Is over use in travel ball a problem? Yes
Are kids throwing that are not fully developed a problem? Yes
Are poor mechanics a problem? Yes
Is the way pitchers are prepared for the grind of a season a problem? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the program.
My son had TJ at the Andrews Clinic. 15 kids had the surgery the morning we were there. They told me that was a typical day of surgery there. It is all over.
LSU has had there fair share, maybe a few more than other places lately. But, my guess is that LSU's approach would be a minor factor in the occurrence of arm injuries.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 4:21 pm to deathvalleytiger10
quote:There is a compelling argument out there that good mechanics are a problem. Not poor mechanics. Good mechanics = maxing output putting more strain on the ligaments at a younger age because velocity is put at a premium. 90+ pitchers used to be special. Now they are a dime a dozen.
Are poor mechanics a problem? Yes
Posted on 2/28/19 at 4:32 pm to ell_13
quote:
There is a compelling argument out there that good mechanics are a problem. Not poor mechanics.
Yes, but I do not buy it completely. IMO, after researching this, spending time with rehab specialists that work with researchers, major league teams, and countless TJ rehabs, the vast majority of TJ are overuse and poor mechanics.
But, your thought about maximum output putting more strain on the ligaments at a younger age goes to my point of kids throwing when they are not fully developed.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 4:52 pm to deathvalleytiger10
Bad mechanics affect the shoulder more than the elbow. Every single overhand motion will put stress on the shoulder and elbow (UCL). UCL tears are going way up with mechanics getting better overall.
With my TJ surgery, I was entered into one of those studies. 10 years later, I still have discussions with the Doc and his trainer at the time who now works for the saints. This is who I’m getting some of these thoughts from.
With my TJ surgery, I was entered into one of those studies. 10 years later, I still have discussions with the Doc and his trainer at the time who now works for the saints. This is who I’m getting some of these thoughts from.
This post was edited on 2/28/19 at 5:00 pm
Posted on 2/28/19 at 5:02 pm to ell_13
quote:
There is a compelling argument out there that good mechanics are a problem. Not poor mechanics. Good mechanics = maxing output putting more strain on the ligaments at a younger age because velocity is put at a premium. 90+ pitchers used to be special. Now they are a dime a dozen.
I have no idea if that’s true or not but I will add some anecdotal evidence.
I had 3 team mates in high school/travel ball that threw 90+. One of them had tommy john surgery. The other two would have needed it if they intended to play ball at the next level.
And these weren’t even consistent 90+ guys. Just guys that could run it up there several times a game.
ETA: This would have been around 2008
This post was edited on 2/28/19 at 5:04 pm
Posted on 2/28/19 at 6:03 pm to ell_13
quote:
UCL tears are going way up with mechanics getting better overall.
This is simply untrue. Mechanics are just as bad as ever. The reason, very few really know what good mechanics are and it takes videotaping to spot it. The vast majority of travel ball coaches don't know proper mechanics and neither do most high school coaches.
You have a great first hand knowledge having been through the surgery and rehab. However, the latest research is not congruent with your thoughts regarding mechanics.
Go read the research and real world applications from the following: Dr. James Andrews and Dr. Jeffrey Dugas at Andrews Sports Medicine, Randy Sullivan, PT and Founder of the Florida Baseball Ranch, Dr. Glenn Fleisig at Andrews Sports Medicine, and Kevin Wilk, PT and lead researcher at Andrews Sports Medicine. We spent hours with these guys.
Dr. Fleisig and Randy Sullivan have spent thousands of hours researching the mechanics of pitching. Randy has resurrected many MLB careers by making changes to mechanics to alleviate arm pain and take stress of the elbow. His research is light years ahead of everyone else on mechanics and how it influences arm pain.
Posted on 2/28/19 at 6:07 pm to deathvalleytiger10
Better win first two. Still not sold on walker
Posted on 2/28/19 at 6:23 pm to Higgysmalls
quote:
Still not sold on walker
Posted on 2/28/19 at 6:58 pm to deathvalleytiger10
quote:
Deathvalleytiger10
I have no clue if you know what you’re talking about but it’s interesting as frick.
You have any links to read more about this?
Posted on 2/28/19 at 7:12 pm to deathvalleytiger10
We had a disconnect. I’m defining “good mechanics” as what is taught to get the max output of a pitcher. Things like longer strides, stronger core, front-side finish, chest up, pulling glove into chest... nothing to do with the arm itself... but help put the pitcher and his arm in a position to create the most torque with the most potential energy which is transferred to kinetic energy (velocity and rotation) in the ball through the elbow and shoulder. It is impossible to avoid stress in those areas. It is impossible NOT to stress the UCL. Getting a pitcher into a good position results in this:
Someone considered to have a very good, fluid motion
This is considered “good” stress on an elbow.
Someone considered to have a very good, fluid motion
This is considered “good” stress on an elbow.
This post was edited on 2/28/19 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 2/28/19 at 7:18 pm to ell_13
This post was edited on 2/28/19 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 2/28/19 at 8:01 pm to ell_13
That looks painful....
And he’s not even a “power pitcher”.
Just look at the torque on say John Smoltzs slider
LINK
And that’s before the days of specialized pitching and everyone has tommy john and he STILL had tommy John
And he’s not even a “power pitcher”.
Just look at the torque on say John Smoltzs slider
LINK
And that’s before the days of specialized pitching and everyone has tommy john and he STILL had tommy John
This post was edited on 2/28/19 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 2/28/19 at 8:14 pm to A Menace to Sobriety
Many have tender arms before they get to LSU. His pitch count thus far wouldn’t have allowed for arm soreness that would have sidelined him for however long
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