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Started By
Message
re: Coaching...too early to compare Marcus Freeman to Brian Kelly?
Posted on 12/5/24 at 5:33 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Posted on 12/5/24 at 5:33 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
a totally different game with transfer portal and nil.
You cant just act like the transfer portal is a positive as you also have players leaving. I firmly believe the transfer portal is waht is allowing the parity in the sec now. Good players aren't staying in a back up role if they lose out on a starting job.
0
Posted on 12/5/24 at 5:39 pm to TigerFlash
quote:
Is it too early to compare the job Marcus Freeman has done at Notre Dame, since taking over after Brian Kelly left to the job Brian Kelly has done at LSU?
Freeman inherited a playoff caliber roster
Kelly inherited 38 players coming off back to back 6-6 seasons
Our schedule is tougher
so yes, it's way too early to compare
Posted on 12/5/24 at 5:39 pm to Rickdaddy4188
Overall actual W-L record can be affected by SOS. But imo a team's results ATS tells more about how your team performed. ND was 10-2 ATS and LSU was 4-8 ATS
Posted on 12/5/24 at 6:02 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
Freeman inherited a playoff caliber roster
Kelly inherited 38 players coming off back to back 6-6 seasons
Our schedule is tougher
so yes, it's way too early to compare
It may be early, but it's not "way too early".
What each coach "inherited" was over three years ago. Their teams this year had three years of players they recruited on it.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 6:12 pm to WHS
Freeman did beat A&M and USC, two teams Kelly lost too..
Posted on 12/5/24 at 6:14 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
The last of orgeron's classes were atrocious.
No they weren't!
The 2019 class was ranked 6th in the nation and the 2020 class was ranked 4th in the nation. The 2021 class that Orgeron mostly recruited and Kelley signed was ranked 4th in the nation. Compare that to this year class which is ranked 8th. If the last of Orgeron's classes were atrocious, what do you call this year's class?
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 6:23 pm to Nutriaitch
ND has Denbrock now and LSU doesn't. (Compare and contrast Denbrock vs Sloan. Laughable)
ND has Light Years superior OL Coaching and OL talent. Our OL Coaching and Talent is SWAC level. (Not counting Campbell and Dellinger, whom were both Orgeron-Cregg recruits)
ND has Light Years superior OL Coaching and OL talent. Our OL Coaching and Talent is SWAC level. (Not counting Campbell and Dellinger, whom were both Orgeron-Cregg recruits)
Posted on 12/5/24 at 6:27 pm to semjase
quote:
Our OL Coaching and Talent is SWAC level. (Not counting Campbell and Dellinger, whom were both Orgeron-Cregg recruits)
So why did so many elite programs want Weston Davis, Coen Echols, DJ Chester etc?
Posted on 12/5/24 at 7:00 pm to TigerFlash
One inherited a team, and the other had to basically fabricate one.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 7:09 pm to TigerFlash
quote:
Is having quarterback with the skills to win a Heisman Trophy quarterback your team for two years a positive or a negative for Kelly when comparing the teams results? In other words, would Kelly's record be worse if he wouldn't have had that Heisman Trophy winner?
Of course it would have been worse, but he was smart enough to recruit and bring in Daniels. Remember, people weren't hot on Daniels after his last year at AZ St. He had an injury-depleted WR group and had just 10 pass TDs to 10 INTS. He could have just thought he only needed Brennan and Nuss who were already on the roster. Hell, many on here acted like he was a bum of a QB at times. BK saw something on him, got him to come here, and he helped LSU out tremendously.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 7:22 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
quote:
This year with three years of his recruits and management of our roster, we are 8-4 and unranked
There was a reason all of our good players on defense were young. The last of orgeron's classes were atrocious.
[Although you responded to my post, the quote is not mine.]
FTR, we were not that young on D in '23. All three DL got drafted as did Speights. There was also Swinson, Savion, Guillory, Perkins, Weeks, and Penn. There were no excuses for the train wreck on D. House took the fall but there's reason BK was hired and given a 10Y contract - he's not a rookie.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 7:47 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 7:30 pm to Big EZ Tiger
Daniel's had a 65% completion rate and threw for 2300 yards in his last season @ Arizona State.. That's also the SAME 10 interception season people reference without noting that he had the HIGHEST COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IN THE CONFERENCE !
Ran for 700 yards and 6 tds.
In 3 seasons he passed for almost 6000 yards with ONLY 13 interceptions...
Ran for 700 yards and 6 tds.
In 3 seasons he passed for almost 6000 yards with ONLY 13 interceptions...
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 7:50 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 7:44 pm to 1970sPurpleKnight
How was he unknown in high school sports rich Southern California?
He had choices and options after the coaching/ASU/NCAA situation reached a head!
You dudes keep repeating the same nonsense!!
As a high school senior He had options...
He had offers from 25 D-1 schools.. 3 offers were from SEC schools:Georgia ,Tennessee and Ole Miss... Ohio State ,Florida State,UCLA,Oregon, USC and Utah offered him..
He had choices and options after the coaching/ASU/NCAA situation reached a head!
You dudes keep repeating the same nonsense!!
As a high school senior He had options...
He had offers from 25 D-1 schools.. 3 offers were from SEC schools:Georgia ,Tennessee and Ole Miss... Ohio State ,Florida State,UCLA,Oregon, USC and Utah offered him..
Posted on 12/5/24 at 8:06 pm to Cannon856
quote:
LMAO!! How many is plenty?
3-4. Which is plenty with their typical schedule
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:41 pm to TigerFlash
quote:
The 2019 class was ranked 6th in the nation and the 2020 class was ranked 4th in the nation. The 2021 class that Orgeron mostly recruited and Kelley signed was ranked 4th in the nation. Compare that to this year class which is ranked 8th. If the last of Orgeron's classes were atrocious, what do you call this year's class?
You are slightly off on this pronouncement, the 2021 class were freshmen in 2021 and played for Ed O that season. The 2021 class signed in December of 2020 and February of 2021.
The transition class was the 2022 signing class, that was short on numbers of signees and ranked considerably lower than 4th in the nation.
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:47 pm to Howyouluhdat
Here's BK's record while at ND. FTR, his predecessor, Charlie Weiss, went 7-6 and 6-6 the two seasons before BK began:
2010 8-5
2011 8-5
2012 12-1 (lost 14-42 to Bama in BCS NCG)
2013 9-4
2014 8-5
2015 10-3
2016 4-8 (ouch)
2017 10-3
2018 12-1 (lost 3-30 to Clemson in 1st Rd; Clemson would go on to trounce Bama 44-16 in the NCG - always like to mention Bama's embarrassing moments)
2019 11-2
2020 10-2
2021 11-2 (Technically 11-1, he left before Freeman lost the bowl game)
ETA: note to clarify for 2021 season. Thanks Sidewalk Tiger.
2010 8-5
2011 8-5
2012 12-1 (lost 14-42 to Bama in BCS NCG)
2013 9-4
2014 8-5
2015 10-3
2016 4-8 (ouch)
2017 10-3
2018 12-1 (lost 3-30 to Clemson in 1st Rd; Clemson would go on to trounce Bama 44-16 in the NCG - always like to mention Bama's embarrassing moments)
2019 11-2
2020 10-2
2021 11-2 (Technically 11-1, he left before Freeman lost the bowl game)
ETA: note to clarify for 2021 season. Thanks Sidewalk Tiger.
This post was edited on 12/5/24 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 12/5/24 at 9:50 pm to AlwysATgr
quote:
2021 11-2
Technically 11-1, he left before Freeman lost the bowl game
Posted on 12/5/24 at 11:00 pm to 1970sPurpleKnight
quote:
Daniel's had a 65% completion rate and threw for 2300 yards in his last season @ Arizona State.. That's also the SAME 10 interception season people reference without noting that he had the HIGHEST COMPLETION PERCENTAGE IN THE CONFERENCE !
Ran for 700 yards and 6 tds.
In 3 seasons he passed for almost 6000 yards with ONLY 13 interceptions
He was always a good runner. He became a spectacular runner at LSU in his final year and his 8.4 ypc average with that many carries for a QB in that season may never be matched.
He didn't have much to work with his last year at AZ St. and the program was imploding with Herm Edwards. People pay little attention to completion % when you have 10 TDs and 10 INTS. Those are obviously not good numbers. He started off great at AZ St, but looked like he regressed (though it was really the situation there). It wasn't gigantic news or anything when BK got him, but people were mostly happy to have another option besides Brennan. BK said when LSU got him that he thought JD had only scratched the surface of what he could do. He was right.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 12:22 am to TigerFlash
quote:
No they weren't!
The 2019 class was ranked 6th in the nation and the 2020 class was ranked 4th in the nation.
Now go look at how many of those players were on the roster when Kelly took over.
We literally had 39 players on scholly when Kelly was hired. Hell,O's 2021 roster during the season only had 69 scholly players and by the bowl game we were down to 39 scholly players.
It doesn't matter how good the recruiting team rankings are if you don't hold onto the players or they don't address needs.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 12:35 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 5:25 am to RockinRobin1955
quote:
Kelly’s accomplished more at LSU than Notre Dame has accomplished in the last 36 fricking years
Are you absolutely sure of that?
In terms of team accomplishments, Kelly has reached one conference championship game, with zero playoff appearances and zero national championship game appearances.
Notre Dame, in the time period you referenced, has reached one conference championship game, with two playoff appearances and one national championship game appearance.
In terms of individual/group player accomplishments Kelly has had one player (Jayden Daniels) win the Heisman Trophy (and Walter Camp Award, Davey O'Brien Award and Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award).
Notre Dame, in your time period, has had the following players win individual/group awards:
Xavier Watts (Bronko Nagurski Trophy)
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah (Dick Butkas Award)
Jaylon Smith (Dick Butkas Award)
Manti Te'o (Bronko Nagurski Trophy, Maxwell Award, Walter Camp Award, Lombardi Award, Chuck Bednarik Award, Dick Butkas Award and Lott IMPACT Trophy)
Tyler Eifert (John Mackey Award)
Golden Tate (Biletnikoff Award)
Brady Quinn (Maxwell Award & Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award)
Chris Zurich (Lombardi Award)
Aaron Taylor (Lombardi Award)
Raghib Ismail (Walter Camp Award)
Tony Rice (Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award)
ND OL (Joe Moore Award)
Brian Kelly has seen 22 LSU players drafted in the last three drafts.
Notre Dame has had 190 players drafted in the last 36 years.
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