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Started By
Message
re: Coach O Is Crushing It
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:07 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:07 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
He shouldn't be on the hot seat anymore so there shouldn't be a 'make it or break it' argument for next season.
He's not on the hot seat for 3 losses unless the offense falls apart, can't see that happening with the talent on board
I would be disappointed with three though
1
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:12 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
So what does all the data say about literally every NC championship coach this century winning hardware in under 3 years, and all but Fisher and Dabo winning titles in 3 years. Fisher won at 4, Dabo in 7, but both won hardware in Year 1 or 2. Again, needing "time" is false. You get "time" and the benefit of the doubt BECAUSE you win.
Mack Brown- 2005. Year 8 at Texas. Also NC Appearance in 2009. Was at NC for 10 years before that with no titles of any kind. Didn't win the conference outright until 2005 at Texas.
Also while Saban did win the SEC in year 2 at LSU, didn't win his first national title until year 4. He took a bad dip in year 3 as you recall.
And I consider winning a NY6 bowl something to give a coach time, but that's just me.
This post was edited on 1/29/19 at 1:19 pm
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:15 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He's not on the hot seat for 3 losses unless the offense falls apart, can't see that happening with the talent on board
I would be disappointed with three though
Same
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:19 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Mack Brown- 2005. Year 8 at Texas. Also NC Appearance in 2009. Was at NC for 10 years before that with no titles of any kind. Didn't win the conference outright until 2005 at Texas.
These are different times we reside in today brother. I thought we expected to be back into the championship hunt soon.
If it were acceptable to go that long without even a conference championship appearance then why did we fire Les?
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:21 pm to Mickey Goldmill
He needs to show progress this year is pretty loaded and we return so much (which we won’t next year)
So it’s kinda a year where everything is together and we need to show something.
I dont Want Mack Brown. Hanging around hoping for a Vince Young isn’t a good option.
So it’s kinda a year where everything is together and we need to show something.
I dont Want Mack Brown. Hanging around hoping for a Vince Young isn’t a good option.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:21 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Mack Brown- 2005. Year 8 at Texas. Also NC Appearance in 2009. Was at NC for 10 years before that with no titles of any kind. Didn't win the conference outright until 2005 at Texas.
1) Had evidence at NC of building a program from scratched and making them a consistent winner. 1-10 to 10-2.
2) Was 1st or second in his division consistently prior to 05.
3) Texas was worse than mediocre before he got there. Losing record in 97.
quote:
Also while Saban did win the SEC in year 2 at LSU, didn't win his first national title until year 4. He took a bad dip in year 3 as you recall.
And I consider winning a NY6 bowl something to give a coach time, but that's just me.
Yeah, he won the SEC, that certainly buys more time, regardless.
That NY6 bowl is not what it used to be, 8 teams are pulled OUT of the group now do to playoffs. In the old bowl structure, I'm not sure we make the Cap One bowl this past season.
Second, UCF is a weak opponent to judge the season.
This post was edited on 1/29/19 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:23 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
These are different times we reside in today brother. I thought we expected to be back into the championship hunt soon.
If it were acceptable to go that long without even a conference championship appearance then why did we fire Les?
I was just responding to his comment. I don't agree with giving a coach 8 years at LSU right now before winning something.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:25 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
1) Had evidence at NC of building a program from scratched and making them a consistent winner. 1-10 to 10-2.
2) Was 1st or second in his division consistently prior to 05.
3) Texas was worse than mediocre before he got there. Losing record in 97.
Just pointing out that one outlier since you used an absolute term.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:27 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
That NY6 bowl is not what it used to be, 8 teams are pulled OUT of the group now do to playoffs. In the old bowl structure, I'm not sure we make the Cap One bowl this past season.
Second, UCF is a weak opponent to judge the season.
See this is where you lose credibility with me. I can't stand fans that are so focused on proving their point that they diminish positives for the program. The Fiesta Bowl win was a huge moment for LSU.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:29 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Just pointing out that one outlier since you used an absolute term.
Congrats I guess? Absolute terms are meant to ignore outliers, there are always outliers.
So instead of hiring an outlier that says "This guy doesn't have the experience, or ALL of he results, or NC, he has the tools, let's see if he's an outlier," we went after the "Everything says he's a bad coach, he's the worst coach in Ole Miss history, no one hires him, I don't know his vision, but maybe he's an outlier and is not as bad as he seems...?"
That's the kind of outlier we have.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:34 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
See this is where you lose credibility with me. I can't stand fans that are so focused on proving their point that they diminish positives for the program. The Fiesta Bowl win was a huge moment for LSU.
You brought the Fiesta Bowl, not me:
quote:
And I consider winning a NY6 bowl something to give a coach time, but that's just me.
t isn't the same bowl or structure. It doesn't mean as much as it used to. If you don't want someone to pick it apart, I wouldn't bring it up to defend O because it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, or comparing it to "hardware-like" wins, which was your intention. Wins good enough to buy O time. it is not that, because the bowl is not the same as it was in the past when, in 2002 I might have said, "Winning the Sugar Bowl without conference hardware, is enough to buy a coach time."
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:48 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
isn't the same bowl or structure. It doesn't mean as much as it used to.
You know man, you'll see things the way you want to see them.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:49 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
That NY6 bowl is not what it used to be, 8 teams are pulled OUT of the group now do to playoffs.
Well this is wrong.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:54 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Well this is wrong.
4 not 8.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:57 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Congrats I guess? Absolute terms are meant to ignore outliers, there are always outliers.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:58 pm to josh336
quote:
which is basically what the program has been at since saban’s recruits left the program.
I love how no high school players need coaching. The person who recruited them determines whether they are good or bad, regardless of whether that coach leaves before they see the field. The Rant is truly a blissful place.
I guess that means that Orgeron’s good season happened because of Miles’ recruits.
For kicks and giggles, the first two seasons with not a single Saban recruit on the team were 11-2 and 13-1.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 1:59 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
t isn't the same bowl or structure. It doesn't mean as much as it used to. If you don't want someone to pick it apart, I wouldn't bring it up to defend O because it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, or comparing it to "hardware-like" wins, which was your intention. Wins good enough to buy O time. it is not that, because the bowl is not the same as it was in the past when, in 2002 I might have said, "Winning the Sugar Bowl without conference hardware, is enough to buy a coach time."
So the Fiesta Bowl went from a top 4 bowl to a top 6 bowl. And now we don't think it means anything?
Posted on 1/29/19 at 2:00 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
He won at Toledo, LSU, and Alabama right away. So MSU is an outlier from there. And I definitely disagree that he "needs all the right pieces." He build the right pieces everywhere he goes, he just didn't do it a high level one time, but was on his way.
In Saban's 5 years at LSU only one season did he have less than 3 losses (8-4, 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, 9-3). Now that was the NC season and he should be credited with bringing the program out of the basement, but as you see there were ups and downs. If he stayed could he have made us into what he's done at Bama? IDK. Les came in and did very well until he became his own worst enemy.
quote:
It's been 2.5 years, plus his history, haven't we seen enough that it's do or die this year?
I've been told that interim doesn't count, but nevertheless I agree that 2019 is a no excuse season based on LSU having the talent and staff being essentially in place. As you mentioned in other posts 3 losses in 2019 is unacceptable and I expect us to seriously compete for a SECC.
I'm not on any side. I won't shill for O and I won't trash him. I will give my opinion (whether anyone agrees or not) and likely not make friends on any side. Unfortunately, and I said this a long time ago, I think he has some of the same deficiencies that Les had and could lead to his undoing. Les is to Cameron as O is to Ensminger. At least O seems to be attempting to evolve but the clock is ticking and if 2019 doesn't yield elite level results he will go into 2020 with a new QB and a lot less support than he currently has.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 2:04 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
ou know man, you'll see things the way you want to see them.
In 2001, the bowls would have been something like:
Rose Bowl : Alabama/Clemson - BCS Champ game
Orange bowl: Notre Dame/OU
Sugar: UGA/OSU
Fiesta: UW/Texas
Right? Typically, Conf champ game losers, outside of bad seasons, would default to the next assigned bowl - UGA down to the sugar, which means, LSU doesn't make a fiesta who typically pulls from the Pac or Big 12.
We'd probably go to one of Cap One, Cotton or Peach with Florida going to another.
Not complicated. If last season happened 15 years ago, we don't go to one of the big four bowls.
Posted on 1/29/19 at 2:04 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
4 not 8.
That's pretty damn important
Looks like voters thought more of the team than negatigers.
This post was edited on 1/29/19 at 2:12 pm
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