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re: Change my mind: Matt McMahon is a bad basketball coach.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 4:28 pm to Open Your Eyes
Posted on 2/10/25 at 4:28 pm to Open Your Eyes
He is obviously not a bad basketball coach from his track record if nothing else. He might or might not be up to resurrecting a team from the dead in a very tough conference with very little NIL money.
2
Posted on 2/10/25 at 4:33 pm to Vincenzo Pantangelli
Paris signed a 5 year deal
Gates signed a 6 years contract.
I've said a million times I thought McMahon's contract was too long by a year. But you also have to acknowledge neither South Carolina nor Missouri were hiring a new HC on the heels of the school receiving a NOA.
If LSU would have hired a mid-major HC with little history of success everyone here would have bitched. McMahon had a solid resume at the time relative to the other SEC hires that year. But I'm certain he wanted a stronger degree of job security in the negotiations given the uncertainty surrounding the LSU program. ANY reasonably in demand coach LSU could have tried to hire would have wanted the same thing. That increased security was in the length of the contract. You can't evaluate the situation through the lens of hindsight. LSU felt they were getting the best HC they could within the parameters they were working under. If McMahon were successful over these last 3 years the contract would have looked much better given salary inflation would have made it look reason.
It hasn't worked, which makes the hire #250 or course of college basketball where a coach failed to achieve success at a major-conf. program after making the jump from a mid-major. You have to eat the mistake and move on.
Gates signed a 6 years contract.
I've said a million times I thought McMahon's contract was too long by a year. But you also have to acknowledge neither South Carolina nor Missouri were hiring a new HC on the heels of the school receiving a NOA.
If LSU would have hired a mid-major HC with little history of success everyone here would have bitched. McMahon had a solid resume at the time relative to the other SEC hires that year. But I'm certain he wanted a stronger degree of job security in the negotiations given the uncertainty surrounding the LSU program. ANY reasonably in demand coach LSU could have tried to hire would have wanted the same thing. That increased security was in the length of the contract. You can't evaluate the situation through the lens of hindsight. LSU felt they were getting the best HC they could within the parameters they were working under. If McMahon were successful over these last 3 years the contract would have looked much better given salary inflation would have made it look reason.
It hasn't worked, which makes the hire #250 or course of college basketball where a coach failed to achieve success at a major-conf. program after making the jump from a mid-major. You have to eat the mistake and move on.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 4:40 pm to mhc4tigers
quote:I don't think he's a bad coach, but nothing I've seen from him at LSU shows he's a good coach either.
He is obviously not a bad basketball coach from his track record if nothing else. He might or might not be up to resurrecting a team from the dead in a very tough conference with very little NIL money.
He had success at Murray State, but was arguably their worst tenure coach in 30 years for that program.
In the 4 years prior to him becoming HC, their record was:
31-2
21-10
23-11
29-6
In the 6 years he was HC:
17-14
16-17 (Murray State's first losing season in 30 years)
26-6
28-5
13-13 (Murray State's only second non-winning season in 30 years)
31-3
That's some good seasons mixed in with some of their worst records through the last 30 years and 7 different coaches.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 5:26 pm to mhc4tigers
quote:
He is obviously not a bad basketball coach from his track record if nothing else.
What, specifically, in his track record says that?
quote:
He might or might not be up to resurrecting a team from the dead in a very tough conference with very little NIL money.
Attempt to explain Missouri, miss st, ole miss, and Vanderbilt.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 5:31 pm to drizztiger
There is a list of coaches from Murray st. Who have had varying levels of success afterwards. But they have been a good since the late 80’s with multiple coaches. It’s definitely a feeder coaching position.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 5:44 pm to Open Your Eyes
No need to change anyones mind. This is what’s going to happen. He will get his fourth year w the money he’s been asking for. Revenue sharing is going to be very kind to basketball. He will then be evaluated on his ability to build a lineup and coach them up. I wish him supreme good luck…
Posted on 2/10/25 at 6:09 pm to Alt26
quote:
If LSU would have hired a mid-major HC with little history of success everyone here would have bitched. M
Should have done it regardless. Needed to see what would even come to the program before committing 7 years to someone that really wasn’t that highly coveted. I wish we’d get out of the long term contracts unless it’s a proven coach at this level in this conference.
It seems really stupid to give that much security without even knowing what the penalty would be. Unless it’s truly an established coach.
If the penalty had been bad then you could “eat it.” much easier with a lesser coaching hire. At least more people would have accepted firing your beloved coach at that point and settling on a lesser coach who would be easier to release.
I know this is a different argument, but by firing Wade LSU lost every single player. That was brutal.
Anyways, I never liked the hire, because the guy seemed way too nice and clean, but he could still prove me wrong. A lot of people are justifying just keeping him now, because the support for basketball isn’t there, so maybe they are right? I’m not a basketball fan, but I was completely invested under Wade in a sport I don’t care much about. It was exciting from day one. Kind of like how Mulkey has me watching women’s basketball now.
Even if I don’t care for the sport I still want LSU to be successful at everything, so I hope they figure it out.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 6:12 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
Change my mind
That's your wife's job. Man up and make your own decisions.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 6:45 pm to beauchristopher
quote:This is stated so often and completely untrue every time.
I know this is a different argument, but by firing Wade LSU lost every single player. That was brutal.
CoachMc retained 3 LSU players. He brought 3 players from Murray State, including:
KJ Williams
OVC Player of the Year (2022)
3× First-team All-OVC (2020–2022)
And 2 other Murray State players and CoachMc himself said he could have brought more.
The excuses are mind-numbing. LSU went 2-16 in the SEC. Followed up by 9-9 SEC and NIT loss and now 1-9 SEC an zero chance at postseason with 8 SEC games to play.
Three different rosters. Best result? Getting schooled in the PMAC by UNT in the NIT.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 6:46 pm to redfish99
It won’t work though because he can’t coach. Might as well incinerate that money
This post was edited on 2/10/25 at 6:47 pm
Posted on 2/10/25 at 7:04 pm to TigerPlate
WTF does this even mean?what does DEI have to do with anything associated with lsu basketball? By most metrics this looked to be a decent hire. He had some success at a mid major, went to the big dance and actually won a game. I think he won about 75% of his games. It just hasn’t worked out here.
We don’t support basketball at all, we have almost the lowest NIL pool for basketball.
The top sec teams are spending $8- $9million we are spending a little more than $2 mill. You aren’t going to compete like that.
But get the frick outta here with the dumb shite
We don’t support basketball at all, we have almost the lowest NIL pool for basketball.
The top sec teams are spending $8- $9million we are spending a little more than $2 mill. You aren’t going to compete like that.
But get the frick outta here with the dumb shite
Posted on 2/10/25 at 7:40 pm to Ampipe96
quote:
The top sec teams are spending $8- $9million we are spending a little more than $2 mill. You aren’t going to compete like that
how do you know this? I am not saying I disagree and I certainly don't have any evidence to oppose it, I am just curious how you know this
Posted on 2/10/25 at 7:50 pm to Vincenzo Pantangelli
quote:
and an even worse contract.
He’s the lowest paid coach in the SEC. Maybe Woody got what he paid for
Posted on 2/10/25 at 8:00 pm to jamarr
I can try and re find it but there was an article on the SEC dominating in the pre conference and talked about NIL. Auburn, Alabama, Kentucky and Tennessee were all in that range.
Posted on 2/10/25 at 8:05 pm to jamarr
Posted on 2/10/25 at 8:17 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:tell you what you change my mind or our minds we think he is a good basketball coach… come on change our minds
That’s it, that’s the thread.
FYI I don’t disagree with you that he’s a bad basketball coach
Posted on 2/11/25 at 10:11 am to Open Your Eyes
He achieved a .697 win pct at Murray State and .750 conference win pct there, his last Murray State team finished 31-3 and went 18-0 in the OVC, he led us to a 9-9 record in the conference last year with some good wins.
Look, the Texas and Ole Miss home games are inexcusable and basically unforgivable but Scone reported that we spent a little over $2 million on our bball roster compared to other SEC schools which reportedly spent $5-8 million dollar range on their rosters. If our donors and athletic department refuse to fund our 2nd biggest revenue-generating sport to the extent where the roster will be competitive comparatively, then their priorities are completely skewed and we deserve whatever bottom line result we get on the ledger. Now, Scone also reported that the department and donor base expressed their intent to allocate the funds needed to help the basketball program for 2026 re the roster. We need to see if that plays out.
Financially, it makes a lot of sense, allocate all the money you'd spend to buy out McMahon, hire another coach, AND compile a new roster to building a nationally-competitive roster through the portal. Personally, I want Wade back and I believe the financial backing for everything falls immediately into place therefore making this all negligible on the balance sheet but I don't disagree with the logic of keeping McMahon and applying all those funds to the roster for next year.
ETA: now, if we do all that and we get the same result with McMahon in 2026, then can his arse without a second thought. dude essentially nullifies the notion that he is a good basketball coach in that respect.
Look, the Texas and Ole Miss home games are inexcusable and basically unforgivable but Scone reported that we spent a little over $2 million on our bball roster compared to other SEC schools which reportedly spent $5-8 million dollar range on their rosters. If our donors and athletic department refuse to fund our 2nd biggest revenue-generating sport to the extent where the roster will be competitive comparatively, then their priorities are completely skewed and we deserve whatever bottom line result we get on the ledger. Now, Scone also reported that the department and donor base expressed their intent to allocate the funds needed to help the basketball program for 2026 re the roster. We need to see if that plays out.
Financially, it makes a lot of sense, allocate all the money you'd spend to buy out McMahon, hire another coach, AND compile a new roster to building a nationally-competitive roster through the portal. Personally, I want Wade back and I believe the financial backing for everything falls immediately into place therefore making this all negligible on the balance sheet but I don't disagree with the logic of keeping McMahon and applying all those funds to the roster for next year.
ETA: now, if we do all that and we get the same result with McMahon in 2026, then can his arse without a second thought. dude essentially nullifies the notion that he is a good basketball coach in that respect.
This post was edited on 2/11/25 at 10:25 am
Posted on 2/11/25 at 10:17 am to Alt26
quote:
The hire was a miss. It isn't the first time a mid-major HC hasn't worked out at a major conf. school, and it won't be the last. The contract itself is FAR from "atrocious" relative to not only the rest of college basketball, but the SEC. McMahon is the lowest or second to lowest paid HC in the SEC (depending upon what the Vandy coach is paid...which we don't know). LSU didn't "overpay" for McMahon at the time of hire. It was a reasonable number within the marketplace. It's the seven years that are frustrating because McMahon has proven to be so bad there seems to be no dispute LSU has to dump him after just 3 seasons, but LSU probably didn't have a ton of leverage in the negotiations at the time.
I would've gone bargain basement after firing Wade and just hired the assistant who coached us in the 2022 tourney, give him 3 years, see how he does when the sanctions specter isn't hanging over the program then can him and hire a legit top notch coach but that isn't Woody's MO so we're stuck with McMahon for the time being.
Posted on 2/11/25 at 10:47 am to Gen Patton
quote:
I would've gone bargain basement after firing Wade and just hired the assistant who coached us in the 2022 tourney, give him 3 years, see how he does when the sanctions specter isn't hanging over the program then can him and hire a legit top notch coach but that isn't Woody's MO so we're stuck with McMahon for the time being.
That incorporates a lot of hindsight bias.
At the time, if you lined up the resumes of Chris Jans (Miss. St); Todd Golden (Florida); Dennis Gates (Missouri) and Lamont Paris (South Carolina) with McMahon's, a strong argument could be made McMahon had the best of the bunch. Maybe by a sizeable margin. All were paid (on an annual salary) basis about the same. I could see a reasonable thought process where Woodward felt he was getting the best of the potential pool of coaches available to him and wanted to make sure he got him (as opposed to letting another school hire him) and needing to extend the contract longer than usual to overcome the uncertainty of the investigation in persuading McMahon.
If McMahon were performing like Golden at Florida NO ONE would be criticizing the contract. In fact, many would be saying it was a steal. The fact that McMahon's tenure has gone so bad, so quickly, is why everyone now says, with the benefit of hindsight, they would have done something different.
What's done is done. Playing the woulda, shoulda, coulda game isn't going to change anything. It's just one of those situations where LSU is going to have to take its medicine and, hopefully, learn from the mistakes and move on. Presumably, there was no intention of firing Wade until March of 2022 and that led to a rushed hiring process. Maybe that was the case. Now, however, we can see the plane headed for the mountain for miles away. So I would hope Woodward, internally at least, has been vetting other options so if/when McMahon is fired LSU has a plan of attack.
Posted on 2/12/25 at 12:25 pm to Alt26
quote:
That incorporates a lot of hindsight bias.
At the time, if you lined up the resumes of Chris Jans (Miss. St); Todd Golden (Florida); Dennis Gates (Missouri) and Lamont Paris (South Carolina) with McMahon's, a strong argument could be made McMahon had the best of the bunch. Maybe by a sizeable margin. All were paid (on an annual salary) basis about the same. I could see a reasonable thought process where Woodward felt he was getting the best of the potential pool of coaches available to him and wanted to make sure he got him (as opposed to letting another school hire him) and needing to extend the contract longer than usual to overcome the uncertainty of the investigation in persuading McMahon.
If McMahon were performing like Golden at Florida NO ONE would be criticizing the contract. In fact, many would be saying it was a steal. The fact that McMahon's tenure has gone so bad, so quickly, is why everyone now says, with the benefit of hindsight, they would have done something different.
What's done is done. Playing the woulda, shoulda, coulda game isn't going to change anything. It's just one of those situations where LSU is going to have to take its medicine and, hopefully, learn from the mistakes and move on. Presumably, there was no intention of firing Wade until March of 2022 and that led to a rushed hiring process. Maybe that was the case. Now, however, we can see the plane headed for the mountain for miles away. So I would hope Woodward, internally at least, has been vetting other options so if/when McMahon is fired LSU has a plan of attack.
What's troublesome about McMahon now that we have a basically 3-year sample size is that basically the same thing is happening now that happened Year 1: crush it in the non-conference then can't win in SEC play. Not only that, it appears (like it did Year 1) that he doesn't have answers and that's reflected in the game outcomes. I think we have good enough players all 3 years but it really is apparent that McMahon's coaching or lack thereof is probably the problem thats precluding us from reaching great heights like we did under Brown, Brady, and Wade.
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