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Message
1
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:20 am to Choupique19
Watching people defend this offense is one of the most mind boggling things I've witnessed in a while. I get it that we don't have a great o-line. We don't have a worse than 100 offense in the country o-line. To claim that there's nothing wrong with our system is asinine.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:26 am to BlackAdam
quote:
The issue is we know there is a talent gap, and we still try to out talent them. E could have done things to help the ohlone and Joe. He could have tried bubble screens and other quick developing plays. Instead on third and 2 we were running up the gut.
This is a great statement and encompasses our current staff and the latter half of the Miles era. When Miles first took over and Saban started at Bama LSU was able to go head to head, but as Saban amassed better talent especially up front we lost the ability to just line up and win games.
The whole reason Les is not here is that we had the talent to beat most SEC teams, but not the coaching to beat the top teams. We are duplicating the same blueprint. The only issue is that there are other SEC teams that are starting to equal us on talent so now we have to outcoach not just 1-2 teams, but 4-5.
The road ahead is only going to get tougher and if we don't coach and recruit better it could go downhill fast.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:33 am to TigerNutwhack
quote:It's mostly people that are trying to defend O. Some think it will reflect poorly on O if SE is a failure. Some just think a change won't be made, so they're trying to sugar coat the turd. Some are just offended because they think we are insulting SE. Some just like to keep their head in the sand about things.
Watching people defend this offense is one of the most mind boggling things I've witnessed in a while.
I've seen them all this week.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:38 am to tigerinthebayou
quote:
So no offensive coordinator in the country could've gotten this offense to be ranked any higher than 100's because of the o line? Complete bullshite.
What's astonishing to me is that we put up 33 on the number 2 defense in the country at the beginning of the season. 36 points on the 9th best defense in the country less than a month ago.
And 19 points on the number 6 defense isn't great, but Jesus it's better than 0.
The big thing is that it's been wildly inconsistent and part of that may, in fact, be scheme. LSU may match up more favorably against Miami, Georgia and MSU. It may also be that the o line is a patchwork and sometimes it plays cohesively and other times gets dominated.
But the overall numbers are troubling no matter how you slice it.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:41 am to Buda
This pretty much says it all:
"However, the problem is pretty easy to identify: the offensive line hasn’t been very good. If you can’t block, there’s not much else you can do. Joe Burrow rushes through his reads because he’s learned by now his line is not going to give him time. He’s the second most sacked QB in the SEC, and that’s eventually going to take its effect."
"However, the problem is pretty easy to identify: the offensive line hasn’t been very good. If you can’t block, there’s not much else you can do. Joe Burrow rushes through his reads because he’s learned by now his line is not going to give him time. He’s the second most sacked QB in the SEC, and that’s eventually going to take its effect."
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:41 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
but they sure as shite understand the PR and politics of it.
TM, it is all about the narrative. This is a nice window into 0's psyche and the picture is not pretty. It makes me wonder whether he can truly make the changes necessary to get LSU on a sound footing to compete in the west. I still doubt this very much.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:43 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Say what you will about the football acumen of this bunch, but they sure as shite understand the PR and politics of it.
Am I the only who stands in awe of a football coach & associates running a literal propaganda campaign? It's pretty remarkable, IMO.
I've watched football long enough to know that a really bad OL comes down to two things: 1) not enough talent or 2) terrible coaching
Sweethearts: this OL has some talent, but their development, training and coordination is piss poor. They miss assignments, their fundamentals are terrible and they don't play as strong / hard / nasty as they should.
Even with elite OL talent, this staff would be putting an inferior product out there. This OC / Scheme / OL coach are not working in tandem and the results are obviously terrible.
This post was edited on 11/9/18 at 11:44 am
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:45 am to LoveThatMoney
So many other things go into points though. Turnovers, special teams returns, field position created by defense and special teams, wearing down an opponent etc.
Our 2011 offense was bad. But the defense made it easy for them to score. Hell we had negative yards at the half against uga at the secc but still ended up scoring 40 points.
Our 2011 offense was bad. But the defense made it easy for them to score. Hell we had negative yards at the half against uga at the secc but still ended up scoring 40 points.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:52 am to BayouCowboy
quote:
The road ahead is only going to get tougher and if we don't coach and recruit better it could go downhill fast.
It's not just recruiting.
Les Miles put the training wheels on the offense back in 2009, and he never took them off.
Even the 2013 LSU offense relied on 'safe' concepts: sideline shots, verticals, outs, etc -- that offense had Mett, OBJ, Landry, Hill, etc, yet still struggled against great defenses because of the 'safety first' mentality of LSU coaches.
The 'training wheels' offense just isn't good enough anymore. Too many SEC teams have opened up their offenses, making the old school 'run + defense + special teams' outdated and, worse, disadvantaged.
Just imagine LSU with... IDK, Georgia's passing attack, from 2009 until now. Would Les Miles have another NC or two? Yes, I believe so, especially in 2011 and 2013.
You have to take the training wheels off and let the QB make some throws.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 11:57 am to RuLSU
quote:Like, how many times can we go round and round about this?
It's not just recruiting.
Multiple things need to be fixed when it comes to the offense. Even if SE were to stay next year for some crazy reason, I would want someone to come in and help him try to scheme against teams. Especially Bama. I guarantee you SE and O would say the same thing. So what are people even arguing about?
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:09 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Even the 2013 LSU offense relied on 'safe' concepts: sideline shots, verticals, outs, etc -- that offense had Mett, OBJ, Landry, Hill, etc, yet still struggled against great defenses because of the 'safety first' mentality of LSU coaches.
The talent on the 2012-2013 teams was championship caliber. We were solid on both sides of the ball and had a capable QB. It's disappointing that it was squandered.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:18 pm to RuLSU
I have never claimed that the offensive problems are SOLELY a talent issue. I just watched that Bama game and what I saw was our OLineman getting beat by Alabama's DLinemen CONSISTENTLY and across the entire LOS. I saw attempts misdirection and counters to mask the losses at LOS, but even that doesn't work when your entire OL is stood up and pushed into the backfield.
There are things I would like to see more of: quick slants, take-a-chance go routes with max protection to our big, athletic receivers, fewer RPOs when we have not made them respect the running game, more QB runs, ... the list goes on.
But I am nowhere near the "fire SE now" stage. Our O is better than last year and improving. Rome wasn't built in a day.
To those who want to place all the blame on coaching, this article makes some points to consider. OLine play is a lot about gelling as a unit and these guys have not been anywhere close to stable.
Recommend you guy slow your roll on crying about CEO and SE and work on being a bit more informed.
Also, enjoy where we are: #7 and looking at a Sugar Bowl bid. That's moving up.
Give this coach staff time to climb the mountain.
There are things I would like to see more of: quick slants, take-a-chance go routes with max protection to our big, athletic receivers, fewer RPOs when we have not made them respect the running game, more QB runs, ... the list goes on.
But I am nowhere near the "fire SE now" stage. Our O is better than last year and improving. Rome wasn't built in a day.
To those who want to place all the blame on coaching, this article makes some points to consider. OLine play is a lot about gelling as a unit and these guys have not been anywhere close to stable.
Recommend you guy slow your roll on crying about CEO and SE and work on being a bit more informed.
Also, enjoy where we are: #7 and looking at a Sugar Bowl bid. That's moving up.
Give this coach staff time to climb the mountain.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:22 pm to LoveThatMoney
quote:
You can't simply line up and allow a 4 man rush to get to the quarterback in 2 seconds and destroy the pocket in any scheme, but you damn sure can't do it when you're doing play action nonsense that takes an eternity to develop and is predicated on your line being able to block a 4 man rush while freezing safeties and linebackers.
Right. It's insanity when you really think about it.
You negate speed with timing. You negate their strong, quick players with well timed passing routes. We're doing the opposite of that. It plays right into their strengths.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:23 pm to MightyYat
quote:
It is the fricking scheme. It no way shape or form should the offensive staff ever put Burrow under the fricking center to run those 6-hour long developing play-action plays. Quick passes, WR & RB screens, true RPOs...... there are ways to mask an average o-line. I'm sick of hearing that shite.
Maybe you should turn in your McDonalds cap and apply for a coaching job in the SEC. You seem to be confident in your coaching skills.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:28 pm to Buda
quote:
Our O is better than last year and improving.
In what way is our offense better this year than last? Other than maybe preferring the style to what Canada was trying to install, by what metric are you suggesting we are "better?"
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:34 pm to anne
anne
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2004
625 posts
This is kind of what makes me wonder what's going on. Since this poster joined the site, we've lost Saban as our coach, hired Les Miles, gone through the 2005 hurricane season, had 11 wins twice then a national title, had all the issues we did after that until 2011 when we played for a second title...then 7 year more...
Or to visualize, these are the season that took place after this account was set up.
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
And we're in 2018...
Suddenly, out of the blue, a post that takes the staff to task for offensive woes (not exactly an uncommon rant over the past decade plus) get her to come out of hiding with this gem...
600 posts since 2004...but this required attention.
Honestly...wtf is going on?
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2004
625 posts
This is kind of what makes me wonder what's going on. Since this poster joined the site, we've lost Saban as our coach, hired Les Miles, gone through the 2005 hurricane season, had 11 wins twice then a national title, had all the issues we did after that until 2011 when we played for a second title...then 7 year more...
Or to visualize, these are the season that took place after this account was set up.
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
And we're in 2018...
Suddenly, out of the blue, a post that takes the staff to task for offensive woes (not exactly an uncommon rant over the past decade plus) get her to come out of hiding with this gem...
quote:
Maybe you should turn in your McDonalds cap and apply for a coaching job in the SEC. You seem to be confident in your coaching skills.
600 posts since 2004...but this required attention.
Honestly...wtf is going on?
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:35 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
In what way is our offense better this year than last? Other than maybe preferring the style to what Canada was trying to install, by what metric are you suggesting we are "better?"
The only ways I would say (and this is just from watching, I haven't actually looked into the stats) would be it seems like we have less stupid penalties, and the offense as a whole seems to be on the same page. There are very few completely busted plays, and Burrow looks like he is completely in charge out there. Also the kicking game is much improved.
But as far as yards, 1st downs, and touchdowns? Yeah no, we aren't "better" at all.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:38 pm to anne
quote:
Maybe you should turn in your McDonalds cap and apply for a coaching job in the SEC. You seem to be confident in your coaching skills.
Oh stfu. I'm confident that paying Ensminger to be the OC of a top 5 program was the 2nd dumbest move this administration has ever made. The first being giving Nikki Vargas multiple contract extensions.
Posted on 11/9/18 at 12:51 pm to Buda
Yea I get it, we are changing. My argument is not just the scheme, really just using common sense in gametime situations. A good coach "feels" which direction the game is going and coaches accordingly. A good example would be Aranda making in game adjustments to force GA to abandon the run (a choice we should be thankful for). A bad example would be watching Ensminger lead off the Fl game throwing the ball with great success to set up a successful run attack. Then after his 15 plays of script, he goes back to trying to set the pass up from the run which was opposite of our 1st quarter success and we paid for it. I just want someone with an offensive mind and a street savy attitude of adapting and adjusting on the fly. Not demanding Bill Walsh
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