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re: Rankings don't truly matter...
Posted on 1/29/20 at 7:48 am to ibleedprplngld
Posted on 1/29/20 at 7:48 am to ibleedprplngld
quote:
Also, if memory serves me correctly, Mo Claiborne was unranked
Your memory does not serve you well.
1
Posted on 1/29/20 at 7:52 am to Penrod
If you look at ther Clemson teams, while not super deep with 5 stars they had a ton of talent in key positions
That DL was built around Multiple five stars and high 4 stars. The LT was a 5 star. Watson was the #1 DT QB and #42 overall. And they didn’t just get these guys, but a lot of these guys stayed 4 years.
So I think you’re right class ranking is a bit overrated, but player rankings are important
If you get 10-12 really good quality players each class and they contribute early and stay 4 years that’s 48 quality players.
Now you have a better chance of getting 10-12 per class if you’re recruiting 25 5 stars but Clemson’s classes were all top heaving just not super deep
That DL was built around Multiple five stars and high 4 stars. The LT was a 5 star. Watson was the #1 DT QB and #42 overall. And they didn’t just get these guys, but a lot of these guys stayed 4 years.
So I think you’re right class ranking is a bit overrated, but player rankings are important
If you get 10-12 really good quality players each class and they contribute early and stay 4 years that’s 48 quality players.
Now you have a better chance of getting 10-12 per class if you’re recruiting 25 5 stars but Clemson’s classes were all top heaving just not super deep
This post was edited on 1/29/20 at 7:55 am
Posted on 1/29/20 at 8:01 am to ibleedprplngld
There are always going to be under evaluated guys.
If you’re not going to the camp circuits and you’re not doing the 7 on 7s and you’re just a good small town football player you can definitely go under the racer.
If you play out of position or if your qualify super late (JJ Commuted in like June 2017) you’re gonna be ranked lower.
If you’re not going to the camp circuits and you’re not doing the 7 on 7s and you’re just a good small town football player you can definitely go under the racer.
If you play out of position or if your qualify super late (JJ Commuted in like June 2017) you’re gonna be ranked lower.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 8:09 am to SammyTiger
Clemson has their juniors return more often than any other school. That is the difference. On the other hand, some of our guys are hoping for the 7th round.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 8:21 am to ronk
Top ten recruiting does matter. The nonsense of 310.76 vs 301.89 making a difference is ridiculous
Coaching, player development. Rating bias, position of need, roster management all more important
Miles in his later years had highly rated classes with skill players.. we let the line of scrimmage decline. Could not compete with Bama because of it.
Anyway my two cents
Coaching, player development. Rating bias, position of need, roster management all more important
Miles in his later years had highly rated classes with skill players.. we let the line of scrimmage decline. Could not compete with Bama because of it.
Anyway my two cents
Posted on 1/29/20 at 8:38 am to Penrod
Posted on 1/29/20 at 8:48 am to Fast Times @ LSU
Our 2017 class had an unrated long snapper and UN rated kicker. Low rated whatever. Plus jefferson
Posted on 1/29/20 at 10:49 am to FatMan
In my opinion, recruiting rankings only provide a rough estimate in general with respect to the relative talent level of each recruiting class. As the recruiting services miss on five stars and four stars almost as often as they miss on two stars and three stars.
In other words, there are as many five stars that don't live up to their rankings as there are two stars that far exceed their rankings.
As recruiting ranking should only be taken with a grain of salt.
In other words, there are as many five stars that don't live up to their rankings as there are two stars that far exceed their rankings.
As recruiting ranking should only be taken with a grain of salt.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:37 pm to NattyTiger19
Using Clemson as any kind of indicator to whether or not recruiting rankings matter is dumb as hell. The classes they have ended up with wouldn't make it through the SEC year in and year out unscathed. They wouldn't have played in 4 title games that's for damn sure. In competitive conferences, talent is everything. You see what teams consistently stack up near the top in the SEC. Every now and then you have bottom feeder have a good year but for the most part its Auburn,LSU,BAMA,UGA,UF playing for SEC championships
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:50 pm to ibleedprplngld
Mo was a 3* ATH ranked 26th in country
Posted on 1/29/20 at 1:54 pm to FatMan
Actually there is a very clear correlation between recruiting rankings and success, look no further than Alabama the last seven years. Which SEC teams do best on average with recruiting year in and year out? Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida and Georgia come to mind.
Is it a perfect correlation between recruiting rankings and on field success? Of course not, there are other variables and, by its very nature, there is some arbitrariness to rankings.
There is still a very strong correlation between recruiting rankings and on field success. I do not even see how this is debatable.
Is it a perfect correlation between recruiting rankings and on field success? Of course not, there are other variables and, by its very nature, there is some arbitrariness to rankings.
There is still a very strong correlation between recruiting rankings and on field success. I do not even see how this is debatable.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:37 pm to paper tiger
quote:
Actually there is a very clear correlation between recruiting rankings and success, look no further than Alabama the last seven years.
Yeah, you have that backwards. There is a clear correlation between on-field success and how the recruiting rankings follow.
Look at Clemson. They were ranked on average around 13th in recruiting. They started kicking Alabama's arse (the annual #1 recruiting class) and the recruiting services realized Clemson was making them look foolish. Now look at Clemson's last two classes. No more #15 classes for them. Regardless of the shitty conference they play in.
For further proof look at the Justin Jefferson ranking thread on this board. The Bama and Clemson bumps are explained as well as how if a player does not receive interest from schools they are not even looked at at all by the services.
The schools bird dog for the recruiting services. NOT the other way around. It's all in the article explaining how little the recruiting services actually do for the money they take from people.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:51 pm to Tiger Ree
Or maybe they didn’t get 2 of the top 3 prospects every year when they were ranked on average around 13th
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:52 pm to Tiger Ree
Saban has a keen eye for talent.
His recruiting board IS the rankings.
AL offers, kid's ranking goes up.
Kid commits elsewhere, ranking goes down.
Kid commits to AL, he's soon the best player at his position.
His recruiting board IS the rankings.
AL offers, kid's ranking goes up.
Kid commits elsewhere, ranking goes down.
Kid commits to AL, he's soon the best player at his position.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 2:54 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
They started kicking Alabama's arse (the annual #1 recruiting class) and the recruiting services realized Clemson was making them look foolish
They are 2-2 vs Bama in the playoff era. They starting kicking everybody elses asses because they had 2 phenomenal QB's and play a soft arse schedule. It's one thing to play a meaningful game or two at the end of the year and playing in a meat grinder week in and week out that could determine your fate. Clemson didn't make the recruiting services look foolish. Most of the guys 247 had pegged in the top 200 that Clemson got played like it in college. All the 5 stars they have in this years class are beast. So yes on field success correlates to good players wanting to come to your school but it very much is the other way around as well
Posted on 1/29/20 at 3:16 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Yeah, you have that backwards.
Nah, pretty sure I have it forwards.
You can always find outliers, but year in and year out the teams that top the recruiting rankings are the teams that win the most.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 3:24 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Where did that shite come from? I use the 247 composite.
Clemson's class rankings:
2013: 15 Clemson
2014: 16 Clemson
2015: 9 Clemson
2016: 11 Clemson
2017: 16 Clemson
2018: 7 Clemson
2019: 10 Clemson
Clemson won the 2016 title
Clemson won the 2018 title
And they played in the championship game in 2015.
The guy's statement that he said was "FACT", is NOT fact at all.
Don't ever underestimate how an Elite QB can make very good talent play elite. Watson was just that, an elite QB who is already making his mark in the NFL. Without Watson, that 2016 Clemson team loses a couple of games or more. The 2018 team again had elite QB who will likely be first player picked next year.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 3:32 pm to paper tiger
quote:
You can always find outliers
What I said in my post has no outliers. I told you what 24/7 said in an article they wrote.
Explaining how everyone missed on Justin Jefferson as a recruit
“I like my ranking,” Jefferson said. “I like that I was a two-star and under the radar. It just makes me more eager to do what I do.”
247Sports Director of Scouting Barton Simmons doesn’t really remember Jefferson from high school. There’s a reason for that.
Few colleges were aware of his existence.
Justin Jefferson’s recruitment is a bit of a mystery, even to those who were in the thick of it. Destrehan High School is a powerhouse in Louisiana, and Justin played for a particularly gifted team with plenty of exposure. His teammate and fellow wide receiver, Michael Young, signed with Notre Dame that cycle.
Production wasn’t an issue either. Jefferson posted 44 catches for 956 yards and nine touchdowns as a senior. He might’ve broken out a little later than some prospects during the 2017 cycle, but not so late to the point he should've been ignored.
I kind of remember the name Justin Jefferson, because he was Jordan Jefferson’s younger brother. But because he was a guy with almost no recruiting interest to speak of, he was just a guy, at least from my vantage point, that we never dug into.”
Our process certainly failed on Justin Jefferson, but he is an example of the type of player that can fall through the cracks.”
So if a shite team or no team offers a player even at a school like Justin's, the services don't have a clue.
It is not an outlier it is a fact. What was the walk-on QB's name that went to OU and won a Heisman? JJ Watt, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,
Posted on 1/29/20 at 3:49 pm to Tiger Ree
You are just making the age old Jacob Hester argument with Justin Jefferson instead.
Jacob Hester was a two star. Jacob Hester played better than a two star. Therefore rankings are meaningless.
Clearly the talent evaluators who do recruiting rankings missed on Hester and Jefferson.
That just proves rankings are not infallible, its dumb to argue they are. Ranking players is an inexact science, we all know that.
That's different than saying they do not matter. Let a team ranked 50 in recruiting rankings play Alabama or LSU. Barring the once every blue moon Troy type upset, the 50th ranked team is going to get crushed.
Jacob Hester was a two star. Jacob Hester played better than a two star. Therefore rankings are meaningless.
Clearly the talent evaluators who do recruiting rankings missed on Hester and Jefferson.
That just proves rankings are not infallible, its dumb to argue they are. Ranking players is an inexact science, we all know that.
That's different than saying they do not matter. Let a team ranked 50 in recruiting rankings play Alabama or LSU. Barring the once every blue moon Troy type upset, the 50th ranked team is going to get crushed.
Posted on 1/29/20 at 3:58 pm to paper tiger
When do the rest of the 247 rankings come out?
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