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It's an HVAC SATURDAY! Single vs Variable stage. What you got?

Posted on 8/12/23 at 12:44 pm
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
18358 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 12:44 pm
I have to remove 3.5 ton upstairs unit. Currently single stage.

Has anyone changed from single to variable for humidity control? What are your impressions?

Thx
Posted by EF Hutton
Member since Jan 2018
2366 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 1:15 pm to
I have 2 stage 16 seer heat pump.
I have installed many bryant 2 stage systems, and 1 Rheem econet.

2 stage with a variable speed indoor unit is absolutely better than single stage.

It removes humidity much better. It finishes off the cycle in stage one with a slow blower. It covers the worst spectrum of outside temps, and those milder days.

You can design a single stage system to work pretty well also. You have to be on with your sizing. And you need to select an indoor unit that has the Dehum terminal feature. And select a Humidistat that has the dehum terminal.

If humidity rises in % above what you set it at, for Carrier / bryant you would program the stat to OPEN the dehum circuit, thereby taking 24 volts away from the dehum terminal. This will slow the blower down which supercools the evap coil. A super cold coil removes humidity fast.

Amazing equipment today.

My 4 ton runs 2.8 tons most of the time.
Stage one. If needed, stage 2 is there.
This post was edited on 8/12/23 at 1:19 pm
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
18358 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 1:24 pm to
Thank you. I'm reading quite a bit that backs what you say here.

I'm guessing run cost is similar or quite possibly a little less? And then on to maintenance expense for the long run?
Posted by EF Hutton
Member since Jan 2018
2366 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 1:34 pm to
Electric bill will go down.

Just make sure you register each component serial number with the manuf website for 10 years warranty. Otherwise you’ll get 5 years.

If you have gas heat, there will be 3 serial numbers .

Electric heat—- 2 serial numbers. The electric heat kit follows the air handler serial number, so you don’t enter a serial for the heat kit

The humidity thermostat, follow warranty instructions. There are many choices so just follow registration instructions for each
This post was edited on 8/12/23 at 1:38 pm
Posted by Ziggy
Member since Oct 2007
21885 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 1:52 pm to
Variable speed all day long if given the choice.
Posted by Jmcc64
alabama
Member since Apr 2021
1338 posts
Posted on 8/12/23 at 2:30 pm to
for the lower level, 3.5 ton and 3 ton 16 SEER Trane. 3 stage heating, 2 stage cooling .12 fan speeds (i'm reading from the quote sheet)
plus there's a 2.5 ton 14 SEER upstairs that we don't really use.
Posted by Nawlens Gator
louisiana
Member since Sep 2005
5915 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 1:47 am to

2 stage dual compressors. !.5 ton compressor and 2.2 ton compressor. Outside thermistor selects the 1.5 ton for stage 1 below 85 deg F outside temperature, and the 2.2 ton compressor for higher outside temperatures. At inside temperatures above 1.5 deg F of setpoint, the second compressor starts up. Rarely do both stages (compressors) run simultaneously. Longer run time at reduced tonnage reduces inside humidity. Inside relative humidity has been running down to 50% lately. It's a great system I wish was still in production.

.

Posted by Bama121212
Member since Jul 2014
257 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 4:07 am to
Single stage AC went out in May thankfully before summer heat wave. Replaced it with TRANE 2-stage 2.5 ton 17 seer system. Much more efficient but doesn’t really matter when the power company chooses to jack everyone’s bill up 12% across the board. If you replace one of your single stage units to a two-stage, it’ll give your other single stage unit a break.
Posted by rooster108bm
Member since Nov 2010
3101 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 5:21 am to
quote:

The electric heat kit follows the air handler serial number, so you don’t enter a serial for the heat kit


Trane/american standard will have a separate serial # for the aux heat element.
Posted by EF Hutton
Member since Jan 2018
2366 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 6:35 am to
2 Stage systems do not come in 1/2 of tons.
Posted by Macfly
BR & DS
Member since Jan 2016
9573 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 7:01 am to
I have a 2 stage 5 ton Ruud unit that replaced an early 1980's Rheem. Good or bad, technology marches on with time and in this case it's good. It's a much more efficient unit handling cooling, humidity and overall operation.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5618 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 10:33 am to
Two stage and variable capacity systems, have many pros over single stage systems, and some cons, initial cost being one (is this a house you plan to live in for the next decade?).

But if superior humidity control is your primary reason for switching to a variable capacity HVAC then you likely other issues that you need to investigate as you should have excellent humidity control with a single stage HVAC that is properly sized and and “tuned”, particularly in the summer when the HVAC has long run times.
Posted by LEASTBAY
Member since Aug 2007
15736 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 10:44 am to
I have a variable speed carrier. Would be hard to go to anything else when I replace it. Temp and humidity always stable and quieter. I don't care the cost at this point.
Posted by Bama121212
Member since Jul 2014
257 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 1:00 pm to
Posted by Bama121212
Member since Jul 2014
257 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 1:29 pm to
Also if you haven’t gotten a google nest thermostat, make sure you do that.
Posted by LEASTBAY
Member since Aug 2007
15736 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 1:54 pm to
Doesn't work on variable speed that I'm aware of.
Posted by Bama121212
Member since Jul 2014
257 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 1:58 pm to
Yea I am not pretending to be a pro lol, like the auburn guy said earlier, just reading the old quote. But they had to replace my whole furnace and everything too. I have the trane xr model and it looks like they may not make that anymore?
Posted by UPGDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2021
646 posts
Posted on 8/13/23 at 5:45 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/13/23 at 5:47 pm
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20200 posts
Posted on 8/14/23 at 9:51 am to
I have run my 2-stage 2-ton in both 2-stage and 1-stage. When I wired it to run as a single-stage 2-ton system, it maintained humidity (43-45% with dew points between 70-80F) just as well as operating as 2-stage.

I think the absolute most important aspect of efficiency and comfort with HVAC is having it properly sized. oversized systems just flat out suck donkey balls.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84680 posts
Posted on 8/15/23 at 10:38 am to
quote:

Doesn't work on variable speed that I'm aware of.


I have read that before. I do know they work on 2-stage.

OP, I replaced an 18 year old system with 2-stage 17 seer units and just going by the complaints I see on our neighborhood Facebook page, we are paying way less in utilities than most. Half as much or more than some.
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