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ks_nola
New Orleans Saints Fan
NOLA POTHOLE
Member since Sep 2015
165 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
TLDR - my 2 cents

1. People are busy and have lots to do but people always make time for things they want to do. so if you have a mileage goal or training plan make it happen. similar to diet plan where they make you literally write down everything you eat to see where your calories come from, write down what you spend your time doing and you'll probably see some "wasted" time or something else you'll give up to fit in the extra miles if its what you truly want. PRIORITIES what are yours?

2. if you have the time to get your run in do it even if your schedule for the day is evening run. never know what might come up and makes you miss a run. kind of the principle don't put off what you can do now until later.

3. In general unless you have no time constraints double ups are a part of life to hit "bigger" mileage. doubling up to just hit 7-10 miles in a day probably won't accomplish much unless you're doing something like a track /sprint session in the morning and then hit a relaxed pace 7-8 miler in the evening. my best guess for any day I run double min mileage total is in the 15 range. If you can't fit in two 6ers, adjust the one run from 6 to 8-9.  that's 20 extra minutes.

4. BRM said he has worked his butt off. I'm not dropping 5 minutes miles like him but I put myself in this category. I'm a big believer of you get out what you put in. I've said several times in various posts on here that 99% of us aren't that gifted of runners and simply have to put the work in to get the desired achievements.  Challenge yourself because that's the only way you get better but  have realistic goals. Failure is part of life and has its benefits but always failing because your goal wasn't remotely realistic does nothing but start the excuse train and that's a hard one to derail once it gets going.

5. Marathon plan / goal obviously vary depending on your "standard" fitness level. I can't only speak from my experience on this so this is focused more on sub 3 but not sure it would vary that much for sub 4 in my mind. Any plan over 12 weeks is crazy unless you are couch to 26.2 and if that's the case these probably shouldn't be your realistic goal anyway. Ideally I think standard fitness should be close to 40mpw range and plan on hitting weeks in the 60+ range. work intervals during your daily 6-8 milers and hit back to back mid-long runs (13-17) on the weekend. I'm not a believer in these longish runs being at goal marathon pace +30 secs that you see on some plans. If you never run these at or very near MP you're not going to magically do it for 26 miles come race day. Also I don't see the need to run anything longer than 18-20 during training.

6. BE CONSISTENT. Yes its hot and it sucks. Get over it and simply adjust your pace expectations, not your mileage, or hit the treadmill. oh you don't like the tread well you don't like the heat either so pick one otherwise you're fueling the excuse train.

These are only my opinions based on what has worked for me. Rambling rant over. yes you just waste 3 minutes you could have been running. slacker!!
This post was edited on 4/28 at 3:29 pm


BurtReynoldsMustache
Arkansas State Fan
Member since Sep 2010
4639 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Best damn advice this thread had seen (and it will have been forgotten in a week) Thanks for that and sorry to put you on the spot.
This post was edited on 4/28 at 12:33 pm


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OysterPoBoy
USA Fan
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
23754 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
I just got done with David Goggin’s book and your post reminded me a lot of his philosophy.


Ingeniero
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2013
10532 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
I'm on week 4 of Higdon's novice plan, haven't missed a workout. I'm going to be out of town this weekend though with no time for a run, it's going to kill me to break my streak


LSU Patrick
US Space Force Fan
Member since Jan 2009
68182 posts
 Online 

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Like ks_nola said, try to get in some extra miles before you leave. It won’t be ideal, but it is better than missing workouts and mileage.


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BurtReynoldsMustache
Arkansas State Fan
Member since Sep 2010
4639 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
quote:

Do you even 645 music bro ?


Nah, bruh. It’s more watch than I needed. That being said the 235 has been a pretty poor watch for me in general. By the time a lot of the bugs started rearing their head, I was stuck with the purchase.

All modern gps watches pretty much run on the same sometimes shoddy Sony chipset. The 235s major flaws are syncing, hr, time interval countdown (skips and loudness changes), and after 2 years, the screen is going out.

I couldn’t give a flip about listening to music while I’m out, not paying attention around here will get you killed or seriously hurt. Even on the trails, you got these cats peddling away without lights brushing you close without a call out.

Now looking at a new watch since it’s apparent that this thing is about to shite the bed and I’m looking hard at Suunto 5.


ks_nola
New Orleans Saints Fan
NOLA POTHOLE
Member since Sep 2015
165 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
BRM - I figured you would appreciate my rambling response, but I don't think it was what people wanted to see. You've said a lot of the same things just in different words.
If you're in the watch market check out coros pace 2. read good reviews. know some people with other coros watches that seem to really like them. I don't know much about sunnto 5 but I have an old ambit peak 3 thats pretty solid. GF has the sunnto 9. its good more features than anyone needs but its finnicky at times. slow to connect to gps and download to app.

Oyster PB - i've never read goggins books but seen some of his post. i can see where the are some similarities but I'm not HARD and yelling just more about realities.


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Fbohn1
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2009
126 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
quote:

I'm not a believer in these longish runs being at goal marathon pace +30 secs that you see on some plans. If you never run these at or very near MP you're not going to magically do it for 26 miles come race day.


I’ve often wondered about this myself regarding marathons. I don’t really believe the same applies to shorter ‘races’ like a 5K or 10K. I’ve done 3 marathons. 1st, I was pretty new to it, and essentially ran my long runs at “race pace” - which was a sub 4HR pace. Ran marathon in 3:58 - so, success?

2nd & 3rd marathon marathon - got injured during training - so it’s a moot point. But, for the 3rd my training group was running a lot slower than race pace on our long runs, with lots of water stops, and I don’t believe that really helped me personally.

What do you run your long runs at? Close to race pace?

I will say, in my triathlon training (I’ve done five 70.3’s). I do find that race day consistently adds about 1.5-1.8 MPH above my training pace during the cycling portion.

quote:

Also I don't see the need to run anything longer than 18-20 during training.


I am also curious about this, because while I believe I only did it once for my first marathon (one 22 miler), I almost feel the opposite. I really struggled the last 6 miles of my only sub 4:00. Like lots of walking. 6.2 miles is still darn near 25% of the race.


BurtReynoldsMustache
Arkansas State Fan
Member since Sep 2010
4639 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
You didn’t ask me, but I have experience here as well so I’ll chime in until ks gets here.

A typical workout I’ve used and will continue to use is what I call a fast finish long run. Basically I’ll take about 7-8 miles out easy put 8 or so together at goal pace and finish the last few at 10k pace.

Other tempos I’ll do might be 3 up 10 at speed and three down.

LSD (long slow distance) is for those weekends between these type of long runs and base building.

It’s said that time is more important than distance. I have always believed this to be true on long runs. If you are spending more time on your long run than it would take you to the race, that’s too long in my opinion. It will trash you for your next week’s workouts. Plus, your legs will already be a little trashed from that weeks workout.


kballa6
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
3804 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
My 0.2 incoming as I agree with a lot that has been said with some caveats.

I don't necessarily discredit the doubles even if they are 2-4 mi each. I have them programmed into my schedule with the morning run being a medium effort run 30-45 mins (4-5 mi) and the afternoon being easy 25-35 min (2-3 mi). As we build mileage, those times will go up.

I don't believe that some short runs are useless and not worth the effort. No matter what distance you are training for, getting out the door and putting miles in is helping, even if it is just 2 or 3. If you are planning to run, it's better than not going, IMO. A runner I follow identifies it best as "a deposit in the aerobic bucket".

Disclaimer: I am not a professional runner, I'm 34, and I pay someone to figure this stuff out for me based on what I want my goals to be.


Fbohn1
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2009
126 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Thanks for the reply,

I appreciate any and all input. Been lurking this thread the last couple days and find it very informative.


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McVick
Michigan Fan
Member since Jan 2011
3621 posts
 Online 

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
I always enjoy honest advice and insight from BRM, ks, and others that go to the next level. It's one thing to immerse oneself into a running plan and decipher the marketed messaging pumping sunshine, but to get to that next level can mean making many changes involving personal habits. There are some sacrifices I've refused to make that I know would help me get to that next level (give up/extremely limit alcohol, get back to the gym, eat cleaner, wake up earlier, never make excuses), and I know this because my best running came when I did those things. I know I can be a better runner but merely increasing weekly miles and runs won't magically make it happen.

So thank you for the ones here that tell it like it is and remind us it doesn't come without a cost. Keep on keeping it real.


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BurtReynoldsMustache
Arkansas State Fan
Member since Sep 2010
4639 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
quote:

I don't believe that some short runs are useless and not worth the effort.


I hope that’s not the impression I gave you as it was not my intention. I was trying to imply that if you could get that extra 2 in one run, it would be better than 2. Garbage miles is term that gets thrown around a lot and I don’t believe there’s such a thing. Also, that term has been perverted from it’s original meaning.


LSU Patrick
US Space Force Fan
Member since Jan 2009
68182 posts
 Online 

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
quote:

I hope that’s not the impression I gave you as it was not my intention. I was trying to imply that if you could get that extra 2 in one run, it would be better than 2. Garbage miles is term that gets thrown around a lot and I don’t believe there’s such a thing. Also, that term has been perverted from it’s original meaning.


This is my take as well. As I stated before, there is nothing "wrong" with running 3 miles, but if you are doing them regularly instead of say 6-mile runs, you are losing out, especially if training for a long race.


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ks_nola
New Orleans Saints Fan
NOLA POTHOLE
Member since Sep 2015
165 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
My ideas / concepts probably depend greatly on a person's true base fitness level. I say true b/c many times people think they are fitter than they are. they may also be swayed based on my ultramarathon experience.

"What do you run your long runs at? Close to race pace?"

When I'm focused on marathon distance my long-ish run (13-18) avg pace will be goal pace +5-10 max with some miles faster. 

"race day consistently adds about 1.5-1.8 MPH above my training pace during the cycling portion."
What effect has this had on your run, did you hit goal pace, run faster, or over bike and suffer? I ask because I've done a few tri's years ago.

"I really struggled the last 6 miles of my only sub 4:00. Like lots of walking. 6.2 miles is still darn near 25% of the race."
I think this just varies and goes back to a base fitness level to be able to hang on. also could have simply been a bad day, not enough fluid / fuel during run, temps 5-10 degrees higher than training weeks. 

2-3 mile runs / double probably has benefits but the gain I think is going to vary depending on true base fitness level.  If a run is just going to be 2 "junk miles"  or whatever its called I'd rather do 10 burpees EMOM for 20 minutes to add to my "aerobic bank".

DISCLAIMER: I'm a 43 yr old semiprofessional runner (I found 27 cents on yesterday's run). No coach as $0.27 won't pay for one.


Aubie Spr96
Utah Fan
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
31352 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Ran The Beast for the beer run on Thursday. 800’ of gain over 6 miles. 9:44/mile. It was brutal.

Recovery run tomorrow. Target is 140 HR for the entirety of the run. Think it was 15 miles.


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Prominentwon
Houston Astros Fan
LSU, McNeese St. Fan
Member since Jan 2005
89731 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
Hola! Just started running. For no real reason other than lose some weight and be a partner with my wife to get her moving as well.

I’m a couple weeks in. Using Runkeeper. Today’s run/walk was 3.75 miles with a 12:04 a mile/min. It’s my best time. I’m still trying to breathe correctly. It’s my best time so far though. I’m slowly noticing a different in how far I can run without stopping each time I go out.

Any suggestions for a better experience?


joey barton
TBD Fan
Member since Feb 2011
11320 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
I think number 6 from ks’s post above is probably most important

With it getting hotter, run early or in the evening and just keep at it. Since you’re just starting out, you will get much faster pretty quickly if you just run consistently


jimbeam
US Army Fan
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
71199 posts

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
5.5 at 9:30/mi. running after dark is still hot as shite
This post was edited on 4/30 at 9:44 pm


McVick
Michigan Fan
Member since Jan 2011
3621 posts
 Online 

re: Official Running Log/Marathon Training Thread
First 5k of the year in the books. Decent baseline. I have three more tries to shave about 2 minutes to get under 20 minutes.


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