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Message
re: Just had my annual physical
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:10 am to Salmon
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:10 am to Salmon
Can you get me some more info on this? I have no idea where to find anything that supports what you are saying, but I am very open to changing my mind.
Right now, I am in the group of people who will get the vaccine if necessary, but I won't seek it out. Much like the flu vaccine. I'm not against it, but I've never "went to get my flu vaccine".
Right now, I am in the group of people who will get the vaccine if necessary, but I won't seek it out. Much like the flu vaccine. I'm not against it, but I've never "went to get my flu vaccine".
1
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:14 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
He only recommends the flu vaccine to those in high risk groups (mainly the elderly).
This is such an ignorant position. Herd immunity is a benefit for society.
Vaccines are not only about those at risk. I don't know why so many people think this.
We have been able to completely eradicated viruses due to vaccines and non at risk people getting those vaccines.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:23 am to rebel cat
Haven't they already said that they're not even sure if the vaccine will prevent you from being infected by covid? They don't even know if the vaccine will prevent one from infecting others.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:57 am to Salmon
quote:
We have been able to completely eradicated viruses due to vaccines and non at risk people getting those vaccines.
The flu vaccine is less than 50% effective and that's a generous number.
According to the British, they've already found a new COVID mutation and are unsure if the vaccine will be effective against the new variant. London just went on full lockdown.
The media is actively running propaganda videos of 'frontline healthcare heroes' getting the vaccine on live TV. This is the fastest a vaccine ever been pushed through the FDA in history. The first vaccine EVER for a corona virus. The Trump admin essentially told the FDA to approve it or else.
Why would any healthy person in a low risk group sign up for the vaccine? If you are under 50 and in relatively good health, your survival rate is 99.98%.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 9:59 am to Odysseus32
quote:
Can you get me some more info on this? I have no idea where to find anything that supports what you are saying, but I am very open to changing my mind.
anything I provide will be from the pharma companies or the government, so if you are inclined to not trust them, I don't know what I can provide from them that will change anyone's mind
but here is a detailed timeline of all the funding and trial times
LINK
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:05 am to Salmon
I don't distrust pharma companies or the government completely. I distrust certain individuals within those institutions.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:07 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
The flu vaccine is less than 50% effective and that's a generous number.
actually 50% is pretty standard and is widely considered to be the standard for an effective vaccine
LINK
the last few years have been bad for the flu vaccine though
quote:
According to the British, they've already found a new COVID mutation and are unsure if the vaccine will be effective against the new variant. London just went on full lockdown.
There is no evidence that it won't be effective.
quote:
The media is actively running propaganda videos of 'frontline healthcare heroes' getting the vaccine on live TV.
Because of people like you
quote:
This is the fastest a vaccine ever been pushed through the FDA in history.
Amazing what we can do with a little initiative, no?
quote:
The first vaccine EVER for a corona virus.
We probably had one for SARS, but not enough people got sick from SARS to finish the trials.
quote:
The Trump admin essentially told the FDA to approve it or else.
You can read all the trial info for yourself. The FDA released all of the information and data from the trials. Do you think they should have been denied?
quote:
Why would any healthy person in a low risk group sign up for the vaccine?
Herd immunity
pretty simple
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:19 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
We discussed this as well. He only recommends the flu vaccine to those in high risk groups (mainly the elderly).
His biggest problem was that the medical community is wasting all this time, effort, and energy treating the disease once you've gotten it. When they should be focusing on known preventatives and mitigation factors.
If I'm ever in a high risk group for either the flu or the corona virus, I'll seriously consider the vaccines.
Honestly, based on this info, it sounds like you are the one who needs to shop for a new doctor. Every major disease that has been eradicated is because of a vaccination that almost everyone took, not just "those at risk." It's the entire concept behind herd immunity. There's nothing wrong with a holistic approach to health, but there's also nothing wrong with using modern medicine to its full efficacy. These two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:27 am to FinleyStreet
quote:
Every major disease that has been eradicated is because of a vaccination that almost everyone took, not just "those at risk."
Which have all been around for YEARS and been studied for decades in many cases with hundreds of thousands of patients who've taken them. I've had them all except the Shingles one. If yall want to early adopt the vaccine, that's your right to do so. I will not be in that group.
quote:
sounds like you are the one who needs to shop for a new doctor.
I'll stick with the guy practicing preventative medicine thank you.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:29 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
Which have all been around for YEARS and been studied for decades in many cases with hundreds of thousands of patients who've taken them.
mRNA vaccines have been studied for decades
also literally hundreds of thousands of people have taken the COVID vaccine already
just FWIW (which is probably very little)
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:30 am to Salmon
quote:
also literally hundreds of thousands of people have taken the COVID vaccine already
And I'll be very interested in their outcomes a year or so from now.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:34 am to Aubie Spr96
more than likely, you will search far and wide for statistical outliers to affirm your beliefs
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:36 am to Salmon
You keep bringing up herd immunity, I thought the talking point was that you could get Covid again? I thought it was released that the vaccine was only good for up to 3 months.
I'm normally pro vaccine but you can blame much of the skepticism on the BS the media has been putting out.
They are the ones saying you still need to wear a mask after taking it. They are the ones saying you can get covid again(if thats the case then a vaccine is useless), they are the ones that are saying you need a booster after 3 months and possibly every 3 months going forward.
Well with that info and knowing what we know about the dangers of the virus, why would any healthy individual under 50 take the vaccine?
You continue to say its for others and I agree, but the main groups that are at risk are the elderly and those that are obese. Why would I care about those that are obese? They don't care about their health, why should I? And I thought it was healthy at any size now?
If the vaccine works, why do I need to wear a mask? If I have to wear a mask, aren't the elderly still at risk? Why would I go around then then?
If the vaccine works, then why would someone that has covid antibodies from having the virus need it? Shouldn't they already have the immunity? Why is the government pushing it on them?
If the vaccine only last 3 months, how long are we supposed to keep getting the shots? Forever?
So hopefully now you understand some peoples concerns on this.
I'm normally pro vaccine but you can blame much of the skepticism on the BS the media has been putting out.
They are the ones saying you still need to wear a mask after taking it. They are the ones saying you can get covid again(if thats the case then a vaccine is useless), they are the ones that are saying you need a booster after 3 months and possibly every 3 months going forward.
Well with that info and knowing what we know about the dangers of the virus, why would any healthy individual under 50 take the vaccine?
You continue to say its for others and I agree, but the main groups that are at risk are the elderly and those that are obese. Why would I care about those that are obese? They don't care about their health, why should I? And I thought it was healthy at any size now?
If the vaccine works, why do I need to wear a mask? If I have to wear a mask, aren't the elderly still at risk? Why would I go around then then?
If the vaccine works, then why would someone that has covid antibodies from having the virus need it? Shouldn't they already have the immunity? Why is the government pushing it on them?
If the vaccine only last 3 months, how long are we supposed to keep getting the shots? Forever?
So hopefully now you understand some peoples concerns on this.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:43 am to lsu777
quote:
I thought it was released that the vaccine was only good for up to 3 months.
:sigh: this is an example of how misinformation spreads so easily
No. It was released that the vaccine works for at least because after 3 months of receiving the vaccine, patients still had antibodies
people twisted that into meaning the vaccine is only effective for 3 months and then it spreads like wildfire
quote:
you can blame much of the skepticism on the BS the media has been putting out.
I blame all the fear mongering on everyone
for media publishing it and the people that don't do any research and spread it
quote:
They are the ones saying you can get covid again(if thats the case then a vaccine is useless)
I don't know where you are getting this?
the vaccines are somewhere between 90-95% effective
so yeah, there is a chance that you could still get it because no one said it is 100% effective
quote:
they are the ones that are saying you need a booster after 3 months and possibly every 3 months going forward.
No one said this.
quote:
Well with that info and knowing what we know about the dangers of the virus, why would any healthy individual under 50 take the vaccine?
With all that misinformation?
quote:
You continue to say its for others and I agree, but the main groups that are at risk are the elderly and those that are obese. Why would I care about those that are obese? They don't care about their health, why should I? And I thought it was healthy at any size now?
You don't have to care. I care to not get other people sick, whether they are at risk or not...
quote:
If the vaccine works, then why would someone that has covid antibodies from having the virus need it? Shouldn't they already have the immunity? Why is the government pushing it on them?
there is data that the vaccine antibodies are more effective and stable than the virus antibodies
quote:
If the vaccine only last 3 months, how long are we supposed to keep getting the shots? Forever?
stop spreading this fake news
quote:
So hopefully now you understand some peoples concerns on this.
Yeah. By lots of misinformation and fear mongering.
This post was edited on 12/16/20 at 10:45 am
Posted on 12/16/20 at 10:58 am to Salmon
I still don't understand why this virus warrants a vaccine in the first place, much less a hurried one. There are plenty of worse viruses out there that we don't seem concerned about.
Regardless, a very large portion of the population don't trust it and therefore herd immunity through a vaccine is likely a lost cause whether you and I get it or not. Herd immunity can be ruled out as a reason to get it in my opinion so it comes down to an individual decision. I already don't like taking medication. I avoid it unless I absolutely need it. I'm not going to put things into my body that I don't understand just because somebody who's getting a big paycheck tells me to. You have to weigh the risks and rewards for yourself and each person has a different situation. But vaccinating yourself for the good of the earth is a lost cause
Regardless, a very large portion of the population don't trust it and therefore herd immunity through a vaccine is likely a lost cause whether you and I get it or not. Herd immunity can be ruled out as a reason to get it in my opinion so it comes down to an individual decision. I already don't like taking medication. I avoid it unless I absolutely need it. I'm not going to put things into my body that I don't understand just because somebody who's getting a big paycheck tells me to. You have to weigh the risks and rewards for yourself and each person has a different situation. But vaccinating yourself for the good of the earth is a lost cause
Posted on 12/16/20 at 11:00 am to Yeti_Chaser
quote:
Regardless, a very large portion of the population don't trust it and therefore herd immunity through a vaccine is likely a lost cause whether you and I get it or not.
hence my frustrations
a vaccine is the quickest and most effective way to get us out of this bullshite, yet people are going to refuse it based off misinformation and fear mongering
frustrating...
Posted on 12/16/20 at 11:07 am to Salmon
Stop spreading fake news? Did you read a fricking thing i said? I specifically said the media has been putting that shite out. 99% of people aren't going to go read the studies. And btw link and back up your claim, here are some of what I am talking about
From abc
LINK
Read that last sentence
Notice the words, second dose.
Again read decline in antibody after 90 days
Now compare to the study on the antibodies from those that already had the virus
LINK
You mean the antibodies from the virus show pretty much the same as the vaccine?
More examples of the media pushing the 90 day or 3 month limit
LINK
LINK
The headline from october
From July
LINK
So for last 6 months the media has been saying that immunity only last 6 months at the most and you would need mutiple shots a year of any vaccine. Now we know all but one of the vaccines even in trials require mutiple shots....well guess what, that only reinforces the headlines that have been pushed for the last 6 months.
And yes the vaccine was 95% effective, but how long does it last? Now you and I understand the bodies response and why its smart to get it, but if the headlines are the vaccine worms a d provides antibodies for atleast 3 months, do you think most people are going to take it? People aren't going to take it if they think it only last 3 months, which is the narrative the media has been putting out.
If you read what I wrote, I never once said that I believed those things, but the media has been putting out that narrative.
And I don't care if you care. And I'm not alone in not giving a shite about the health of someone that is 100 lbs overweight and refuses to help themselves.
Do you not understand why many don't want to take it? That's not even considering that most people feel its rushed.
And all of this for what amounts to nothing more than the flu, at worst, for 99.9% of people?
From abc
LINK
quote:
Moderna's vaccine has already demonstrated it's more than 94% effective in a massive phase 3 trial, but those results only show the vaccine is safe and effective for roughly two months after the last dose.
Read that last sentence
quote:
People who were vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine still had elevated antibodies three months after their second dose,
Notice the words, second dose.
quote:
The 90-day durability is quite good, although there are more declines in antibody titers in the elderly compared with younger individuals," said Dr. Dan Barouch, the director of the Center for Virology and Vaccine Research at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.
Again read decline in antibody after 90 days
Now compare to the study on the antibodies from those that already had the virus
LINK
quote:
Another study from Mount Sinai in New York recently found that people with mild and moderate infections produced a robust antibody response that persisted for 3 months, with a modest dip in antibody levels occurring around the 5-month point.
You mean the antibodies from the virus show pretty much the same as the vaccine?
More examples of the media pushing the 90 day or 3 month limit
LINK
quote:
Moderna vaccine-induced antibodies last for 3 months, says NIAID study
LINK
The headline from october
quote:
Covid immunity only lasts a few months, study finds
Major research suggests that even if a successful vaccine is found, it might need to be administered twice a year
From July
LINK
quote:
Coronavirus antibodies may last only two to three months after infection, study suggests
So for last 6 months the media has been saying that immunity only last 6 months at the most and you would need mutiple shots a year of any vaccine. Now we know all but one of the vaccines even in trials require mutiple shots....well guess what, that only reinforces the headlines that have been pushed for the last 6 months.
And yes the vaccine was 95% effective, but how long does it last? Now you and I understand the bodies response and why its smart to get it, but if the headlines are the vaccine worms a d provides antibodies for atleast 3 months, do you think most people are going to take it? People aren't going to take it if they think it only last 3 months, which is the narrative the media has been putting out.
If you read what I wrote, I never once said that I believed those things, but the media has been putting out that narrative.
quote:
You don't have to care. I care to not get other people sick, whether they are at risk or not...
And I don't care if you care. And I'm not alone in not giving a shite about the health of someone that is 100 lbs overweight and refuses to help themselves.
Do you not understand why many don't want to take it? That's not even considering that most people feel its rushed.
And all of this for what amounts to nothing more than the flu, at worst, for 99.9% of people?
Posted on 12/16/20 at 12:17 pm to lsu777
quote:
So for last 6 months the media has been saying that immunity only last 6 months at the most and you would need mutiple shots a year of any vaccine
No. Read most of those articles and that is not what they are saying or suggesting.
quote:
but if the headlines are the vaccine worms a d provides antibodies for atleast 3 months, do you think most people are going to take it? People aren't going to take it if they think it only last 3 months, which is the narrative the media has been putting out.
I mean...yeah, because people keep twisting "at least" to "only"
this is how misinformation spreads
quote:
If you read what I wrote, I never once said that I believed those things
there was no indication that you were asking those questions on behalf of dumb people
quote:
And I'm not alone in not giving a shite about the health of someone that is 100 lbs overweight and refuses to help themselves.
You didn't even read what I said. I don't want to get anyone sick. I'm mostly want to create a little herd immunity bubble with my family. Same reason we all get the flu shot every year. None of us are at risk.
quote:
Do you not understand why many don't want to take it?
I understand that most people will create preconceived opinions and desperately look for affirmation every chance they get to affirm those opinions.
Every thing about this has become political. Now the vaccine is becoming political. Its absurd.
quote:
And all of this for what amounts to nothing more than the flu, at worst, for 99.9% of people?
I get the flu shot every year
Posted on 12/16/20 at 1:03 pm to Salmon
quote:
I get the flu shot every year
So do I and I will get this eventually as I do have people at risk in my family.
quote:
I understand that most people will create preconceived opinions and desperately look for affirmation every chance they get to affirm those opinions.
Every thing about this has become political. Now the vaccine is becoming political. Its absurd.
quote:
I mean...yeah, because people keep twisting "at least" to "only"
this is how misinformation spreads
quote:
No. Read most of those articles and that is not what they are saying or suggesting.
That is what the articles say. They specifically say they have measured antibodies and it last atleast 3 months.
Most people are dumb as frick, look at the fitness industry as proof of that, and will not look into anymore than the headlines.
The media who has made this political and caused the hysteria are to blame. They pushed a narrative from the summer until now. People like fauci saying we need to wear a mask for atleast another year are to blame for people saying frick the vaccine.
People are stupid and will only read the title of an article.
Also many healthy people are not going to take it until its proven a little more, which makes sense in a lot of ways.
Posted on 12/16/20 at 1:45 pm to Salmon
quote:
Herd immunity is a benefit for society.
Vaccines aren't for herd immunity. Vaccines allow for the herd to be more susceptible because it lets the lesser healthy breed. It is actually a long term negative for the herd. Also the tier 3 side effect rate for this vaccine is like 68 out of 1,000 compared to the 9 out of 1,000 it is supposed to help. It is a bad vaccine. And as you mentioned they've studied the mrna vaccines for a long time and the reason they weren't used before is because they were ridiculously dangerous.
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