re: I quit doing cardio

This thread and the “healthy calories “ thread have been great.

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there is evidence though that vo2 matters for longevity but much stronger evidence that muscle mass matters more…rank things after diet 1) heavy resistance training 2) sprints or some kind of weighted/heavy metabolic conditioning like strong man or sleds etc 3) jump/plyometric/throwing training to remain explosive 4) walking 5) vo2 max training is how i would rank them for longevity and overall health

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2 focused strength sessions and 8k steps show massive massive benefits to all cause mortality. Would what he says be better…prolly, but not much

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3-4 sessions of strength plus 8-10 min max conditioning plus 8k steps a day is more than sufficient for 98%+ of people

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This is what you were saying at the beginning of the thread, which is very different to what you are saying now, perhaps you can see the difference.

Also, I never argued for jogging and in fact agreed with you that jogging was unnecessary and in some ways counterproductive. I was also the first person to bring up inclined walking in the thread

You are the king of strawman arguments in this thread. I didn’t endorse jogging, I don’t minimize the importance of strength training, I posted studies.

I think it is pretty clear that cardiorespiratory fitness is not the least important factor for longevity in any list.

I don’t think you’re capable of even being willing to change your mind about this issue so this is pointless to continue

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You are the king of strawman arguments in this thread. I didn’t endorse jogging, I don’t minimize the importance of strength training, I posted studies.

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this is where context gets lost, i wasnt saying you endorsed jogging, sorry if it came out like that

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I think it is pretty clear that cardiorespiratory fitness is not the least important factor for longevity in any list.

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what do you consider cardio? i consider 8-10k steps as cardio. i consider it way more important than zone 2 training

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People who walked 8,000 or more steps even one day a week were less likely to die over a 10-year period than those who did not, according to a study published in March in the Journal of the American Medical Association Network Open.

Among 3,000-plus participants, those who took at least 8,000 steps one or two days a week were 14.9% less likely to die over a 10-year period than those who did not. People who took 8,000 or more steps three to seven days a week were 16.5% less likely to die over the same period, according to the paper.

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thats why


i also consider sprinting as more important because there are added benefits that come from sprinting that dont come from just zone 2 jogging

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he question arises, which model of physical training successfully supports maintaining basic health characteristics? Today, the endurance model is preferred, and its advantages have been demonstrated repeatedly. Until now, however, this “classic model” has not been compared with any other one in the context of lifelong physical activity and health. Consequently, the concepts of exercise and training in health and aging research are often used as equivalents for endurance exercise and endurance training. We provide evidence that the sprint-oriented training model also results in optimal health outcomes in a long-run perspective. It should be emphasized that both sprint and endurance athletic groups benefit from their lifelong competitive sport participation much more than recreationally active or inactive individuals and that health benefits definitely outweigh the risks associated with intensive training (Fig. 1). There are, however, differences in the profile of benefits: long-term sprint-oriented training more effectively promotes bone mineral density, muscle mass, neuromuscular function, and probably training adherence, whereas endurance training is more effective in maintaining high aerobic capacity and cardiovascular function as well as optimal glucose metabolism and lipid profile across the lifespan. Both training models seem to facilitate keeping low fat mass effectively. The risk of tendinopathy is similar in both groups and higher than in the general population, but the injury rate during competition is higher in sprinters. Competitive master athletes participating in long-term intensive endurance training regimens may have a somewhat higher risk of deleterious cardiovascular structural and functional changes than the general population. An analogous risk in aging sprint-trained athletes is not known.

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i never meant for it to say you endorsed jogging. not at all. i do not consider walking or sprint training as cardio nor do i consider hard conditioning as cardio

i consider cardio as prolonged zone 2 training. of the things i listed i think it is least important. if you feel its more, thats fine.

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Haha yeah I had some good certs but I know some old gym dogs that id trust to train me more than many who have all the fancy certs(you are dead on about pay too...hence why I decided real estate was a little more my style). I think youve proven your knowledge on this board. I think most of the disagreements in this thread from what I can tell, have been misunderstandings. I dont think ive seen anyone dismiss low intensity, steady state cardio, though I think as some have already pointed out, that one can structure their strength workouts to achieve many of the V02 benefits without solely relying on traditional "cardio"

For me a mix of both has been my sweet spot.

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100%

im not dismissing it at all. im more taking the stance of...if i have to choice..what gives me the best mix of

1) health/longevity
2) what contributes more to the quality of my day to day life
3) training economy. in the end many of us are limited in time we can devote to training. I mean personally i would love to be able to do PPSA strongville every day of the year plus 3 days of inclined walking and eat like dante trudal says and push the shite out of the food and gain as much muscle as possible over next 3-4 years....but i dont. so we have to make choices factoring in ROI

i have made no bones about it...i value strength over all other modalities and not even remotely close. there will never be any changing of my mind that it is the most important quality when it comes to health, aesthetics, quality of life.

but when i say strength training, im not talking about being like a damn 300lbs bodybuilder or powerlifter that cant tie their shoes without getting out of breath either.




nad yea the certs are cool and all but the only one i really found extremely usefull was the cpps courses from defranco...well the westside stuff is great too but of the same vein. the stuff from Opex ccp was ok. alot of the other true certs are kind of useless.

i would like to get starting strength cert just to better my coaching of youth athletes.

I don’t consider walking 8k steps a day to be cardio unless they are with increased effort (with resultant increase in heart rate) for a meaningful duration (all 8k steps in one session). If those steps are taken without increased effort I don’t think it’s making anyone more fit.

In all these studies we have know there is significant confounding, which I’ll define for those who might not know (not you) as factors other than the one being measured that affect the outcomes. The sedentary people likely had less healthy lifestyles in other ways as well (overnourishment, diabetes, htn, smoking, drinking) that weren’t measured that affected the results.

That study showed a 16% benefit to 8k steps. The VO2 max study I cited, showed at minimum a 40% benefit when going from low average to above average and up to a 500% benefit when going from low to elite. So 2.5x to 30x higher mortality benefit. Confounding significantly affects these results. To show this, we have to make assumptions. Let’s assume that 10% of all excess deaths are due to a confounder not measured, which I think k is conservative (the number could easily be 16%, erasing all of the benefit to walking 8k steps). When you factor in confounding, the effect of the study variable changes a lot in the 8k steps group, now 6% benefit, and very little in the Vo2 max groups, now 30-490% benefit, with VO2 now 5-81 times more beneficial than 8k steps.

Regarding sprinting vs endurance training. That article seems more like hypotheses rather than measurements of hard outcomes, but I think the hypotheses are reasonable. However, I think the benefits of sprint training listed can be more effectively reached with strength training.

I agree that it’s vital to stay strong as well and resistance train throughout life. But it’s not a zero sum game as you are implying, you can be both strong, fit from a cardio respiratory perspective, and mobile in 4-5 hours a week. About 2 hours for 2 full body workouts and the rest devoted to relatively easy cardio. Anybody doing a PPSA program is spending that much time in the gym so it’s not an extreme amount of time

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I don't do cardio to lose weight or look better. I do cardio because it increases/maintains my VO2 Max which directly correlates to longevity. I lift weights to alleviate imbalances and help prevent injury so I can keep doing cardio.

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Similar. And for me “cardio” isn’t any sort of goal. I just enjoy things that are “cardio” intensive. I don’t like being inside or even stationary outside unless I’m in a hammock or lounging on the deck.

It’s funny this came up on recommended after clicking and searching all the stuff related to this thread.

Galpin and Huberman : How to Assess and Improve All Aspects of Your Fitness

Lots of good stuff in here that reinforces both sides of the argument. A lot about the importance of vo2 max in longevity. A lot about the importance of maintaining fast twitch muscle fibers.

Most interesting thing to me….They actually run tests on two older identical twins. One is a 35 year endurance athlete, one doesn’t exercise at all. By all normal health markers, the endurance athlete twin is healthier. Their muscle mass is identical to the gram but the one who doesn’t exercise is stronger. They biopsy their quad muscles and the one who doesn’t exercise has about 50% slow twitch muscle fibers which is normal. The endurance athlete has 95% slow twitch muscle fibers in his quads!

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I think some people just misunderstand the reason elite endurance athlete Zone2 train and forget it's part of a polarized training regime where you also have to do maximal efforts in the other 20% of your training.

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The reason elite endurance athletes do high intensity training is because they are training for a race and have to train for speed. They arent training for health. If you’re not racing, then you don’t need to worry about speed and you shouldn’t care what a professional athlete’s training program looks like.

If you’re exercising for health, zone 2 causes virtually zero fatigue, which encourages people to exercise longer and new people to being willing to start and stick with it. It allows you to be fresh and injury free for the much needed strength training portion of the health recipe. So even if per minute zone 3/4/5 is “better”, in the long run the easiness of zone 2 will keep you in it longer and provide more net benefit IMO

If you’re training for a race, add speed work for the 6-8 weeks prior but it’s doesn’t need to be always in your program