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Started By
Message
ECA, personal experience and advice
Posted on 5/12/20 at 10:13 pm
Posted on 5/12/20 at 10:13 pm
The other thread about fat burners, I brought up ECA. I've used it, and for my money, it is the only legal fat burner that works. I figured I'd make a longer post for anyone interested in my experience and thoughts, especially if someone wants to try it.
ECA is ephedra, caffeine and aspirin. Usually 25 mg E, 200 mg C and 81 mg A. I personally did not use aspirin most of the time and did not feel it impacted anything.
Warnings:
1. It increases heart rate and body temp. If you take it DO NOT do stupid stuff like outdoor cardio on a 100 degree day right after you pop your first dose. That is why it got banned as a supplement.
2. It is a stimulant. Do not take close to bed. It can build dependence. Personally, I would compare it to plain caffeine in addictiveness.
3. You can build a tolerance. In the beginning, I took it every day. My tolerance got way too high way too fast. I did much better dosing it on work days and taking weekends off. I wouldn't recommend more than 3 doses a day, and you should build to that.
Pros:
1. It works. Point blank, you'll burn fat.
2. It's cheap. The individual ingredients don't cost a ton. Bronkaid is cheaper than Primatene for the E.
3. It's legal. I can't use illegal stuff and may have to drug test for my job. I've never taken illegal stuff, and this is part of that. You don't have to lose a career or take an arrest if people know you take it.
4. The legality means you get good product every time. Someone mentioned clen in the other thread. Aside from being illegal, you have to wonder if your source is selling you real stuff. ECA, you buy pharmaceutical grade everything OTC.
End:
Make your own choices. I took it and none of my blood test numbers got worse. My blood pressure actually got better and a slight heart murmur cleared up. I lost a fair amount of weight.
If you do it, be smart with it. People died by making bad choices with it. Don't combine it with other risk factors like heat or heart stress. Start with a low dose and work up to 3 a day if things go well.
I won't be hurt if no one's interested. If someone is, hope you found this useful. All of the above is from personal experience and reading up on how to use it. I didn't post anything that I did not personally experience, though.
ECA is ephedra, caffeine and aspirin. Usually 25 mg E, 200 mg C and 81 mg A. I personally did not use aspirin most of the time and did not feel it impacted anything.
Warnings:
1. It increases heart rate and body temp. If you take it DO NOT do stupid stuff like outdoor cardio on a 100 degree day right after you pop your first dose. That is why it got banned as a supplement.
2. It is a stimulant. Do not take close to bed. It can build dependence. Personally, I would compare it to plain caffeine in addictiveness.
3. You can build a tolerance. In the beginning, I took it every day. My tolerance got way too high way too fast. I did much better dosing it on work days and taking weekends off. I wouldn't recommend more than 3 doses a day, and you should build to that.
Pros:
1. It works. Point blank, you'll burn fat.
2. It's cheap. The individual ingredients don't cost a ton. Bronkaid is cheaper than Primatene for the E.
3. It's legal. I can't use illegal stuff and may have to drug test for my job. I've never taken illegal stuff, and this is part of that. You don't have to lose a career or take an arrest if people know you take it.
4. The legality means you get good product every time. Someone mentioned clen in the other thread. Aside from being illegal, you have to wonder if your source is selling you real stuff. ECA, you buy pharmaceutical grade everything OTC.
End:
Make your own choices. I took it and none of my blood test numbers got worse. My blood pressure actually got better and a slight heart murmur cleared up. I lost a fair amount of weight.
If you do it, be smart with it. People died by making bad choices with it. Don't combine it with other risk factors like heat or heart stress. Start with a low dose and work up to 3 a day if things go well.
I won't be hurt if no one's interested. If someone is, hope you found this useful. All of the above is from personal experience and reading up on how to use it. I didn't post anything that I did not personally experience, though.
8
Posted on 5/12/20 at 10:48 pm to Rep520
Pretty much same experience, one other huge benifit for me personally and others in South LA is ephedrine's ability to clear sinus issues up.
It's extremely safe if not abused and you don't go run sprints in 100 degree heat. Raises metabolism approx 10% and curbs hunter while having no long term side effects.
Really no down side unless you have heart problems. Imo though it shouldn't be used until you learn to diet properly first.
It's extremely safe if not abused and you don't go run sprints in 100 degree heat. Raises metabolism approx 10% and curbs hunter while having no long term side effects.
Really no down side unless you have heart problems. Imo though it shouldn't be used until you learn to diet properly first.
Posted on 5/12/20 at 11:09 pm to lsu777
quote:
Pretty much same experience, one other huge benifit for me personally and others in South LA is ephedrine's ability to clear sinus issues up.
I have bad allergies in Arizona, and it has a major difference in on/off days.
I've even used it prior to outdoor strongman work on hot days, but I only did that after I had used it for a bit and knew how it affected me. Once you know your own tolerance, you get a sense for how you need to adjust your precautions.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 5:48 am to Rep520
What brand do you use?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:03 am to Junky
I have used bronkaid and primitive(so?)
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:09 am to lsu777
So much this. ECA is far and away better than any :fat burner" you will find in the supplement world. Personally, when I cycle off ECA (or just EC, for me), I replace Ephedra with Yohimbine for a couple weeks.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:21 am to Rep520
What’s your cycle time look like?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:42 am to Rep520
Internet is suggesting it is only available behind the counter. Thought it was a man OTC? Considering trying this to help shed some of my bad quarantine weight.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:29 am to Rep520
Does the source of caffeine matter? Say I take a bronkaid and asa and drink my preworkout that has 200mg of caffeine, would that suffice?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:18 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
What’s your cycle time look like?
I found if I took weekends off, I did not need to cycle it. I would recommend this, 5 days on, 2 off.
If you go straight through on days, I wouldn't do beyond 2 weeks, but part of that is I build tolerance fast.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:22 am to Dixie Normus
quote:
Internet is suggesting it is only available behind the counter. Thought it was a man OTC?
You usually have to show ID. Ephedra is one thing used to make meth. For a while, tweakers would buy up bronchial asthma meds in bulk to combine with whatever else they cook meth with.
Whatever the limit is, you won't be close with 3 a day use of ECA. You just have to show ID so they can track purchases and people don't go store to store buying them out.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:25 am to tke_swamprat
quote:
Does the source of caffeine matter? Say I take a bronkaid and asa and drink my preworkout that has 200mg of caffeine, would that suffice?
No. I used NoDoz because it's 200 mg and really easy to take, but if you're confident your PWO has 200 mg, it shouldn't matter.
I will say, I would be a little cautious that nothing else in the PWO has a bad interaction. I took it with a 200 mg caffeine 5 hour energy one time and did not have a fun time. That's when I went to NoDoz only.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:33 am to lsu777
quote:
Imo though it shouldn't be used until you learn to diet properly first.
This is a good statement like you usually give. ECA is a supplement and isn't going to make up.for a bad diet.
This is completely unscientific and just based on myself, but I always thought ECA burnt an extra 500-750 calories or so. That's a big reason diet matters. With a poor diet, you can blow that amount out of the water in a single meal.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 11:41 am to Rep520
Why 200mg of caffeine? Is that the optimal single dose? Does that preclude you from caffeine consumption throughout the rest of the day?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 11:44 am to Rep520
quote:
This is completely unscientific and just based on myself, but I always thought ECA burnt an extra 500-750 calories or so. That's a big reason diet matters.
From the studies I have seen
ECA- up to 20% of tdee, but for most it's between 10-15% of tdee. Dose dependent.
Clen/t3- up to 35% but for most it's closer to 20% and dose dependent.
Dnp- upto 100% of tdee and dose dependent.
ECA has almost zero sides and can actually be healthy. Clen and t3 has heart sides and possibility of down regulating thyroid output long term. Dnp can be used safely but can be deadly. Dnp is dangerous due to black market conditions and it's extremely long half life.
As far as caffeine source, like you I recommend a clean single source and not something like a preWO just due to possibility of a reaction to the other items in a pre. Also a pre comes as a powder, the companies do not practice geometric dillution when mixing and the powder seperates out by ingredient just due to the molecular weight and the shaking of the bottle. One scoop may be 50% of the stated caffeine dose or it may be 150%.
I would not go this route. A energy drink would be better than a pre, but again lots of other ingredients to consider a possible interaction with.
Just go to wal greens and get baby aspirin, no-doz caffeine pills and bronkaid.
Start with half an aspirin, half a caffeine and 1 bronkaid in the morning when you wake up and again before lunch. After a week or so or after you have built/accessed tolerance, add another dose to the morning. Then again to the lunch after effects wear off after a week or two. Then you can add another to where you are taking it every 3 hours until 8 hours or so before bed.
I think you should also do 5 on / 2 off for upto 6 to 8 weeks. Take a 2-3 week break and if you want, hit again. It is nothing but a tool, don't abuse it.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 11:50 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Why 200mg of caffeine? Is that the optimal single dose? Does that preclude you from caffeine consumption throughout the rest of the day?
Original ECA stack was
200mg caffeine
25mg ma hung ephdra extract
81mg aspirin
Most threw in white willow bark, but others just suggested to use fish oil to help any possibility of side effects from the aspirin.
That ratio seems to work really well. Even with the ephdrine hcl it works well.
Overall caffeine consumption is going to be based on tolerance. In general like all things, start small (minimum effective dose,MED) and periodize dosage up as needed until you reach a maximum safe dosage based on your tolerance and your body.
Personally I can handle a gram of caffeine a day well titrating up from 200mg over the course of weeks. But it comes with side effects where my prostate becomes affected and eventually I have to take a break to re-establish tolerance.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 11:59 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Why 200mg of caffeine? Is that the optimal single dose? Does that preclude you from caffeine consumption throughout the rest of the day?
I've never seen a recommended ratio other than 25 mg ephedra, 200 mg caffeine for the synergistic effect you're looking for. I've always seen that listed as the optimal ratio.
My particular 2 cents would be to start with a single dose of ECA and limit caffeine beyond that. When I took my first few doses, it jacked me up. I did not need any caffeine for extra stimulation. I would get a good 10-12 hours of energy from one dose.
The duration of the dose drops a little, but I would never think you should take within 8-9 hours of bed if you intend to sleep.
I don't think a little extra caffeine will kill you, but ECA is strong in the beginning. If you can limit excess caffeine, I would until you have a sense of how it affects you.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:08 pm to lsu777
I agree with all of this.
The only thing that doesn't necessarily hold for me is that I got good results without issues on a 5 day on, 2 day off without ever fully cycling off.
My standards were that I was able to hold the same doses week to week without feeling different, and that I achieved the weight goals I had set for myself.
I always felt the two days off was sufficient reset for me. In the beginning, I took zero time off because I was dumb and my tolerance got out of control very fast. I could take a full dose and fall asleep two hours later.
When I started 5 on/2 off, my tolerance got back to controlled levels and I never felt like I needed to go further. I'm more tired on the weekends than during the week, but I'm not using any caffeine, and I'm not a zombie.
That said, I've repeatedly endorsed a cautious approach in here, so the last thing I'd do was talk badly about cycling off 2-3 weeks. I just didn't find it necessary for myself.
The only thing that doesn't necessarily hold for me is that I got good results without issues on a 5 day on, 2 day off without ever fully cycling off.
My standards were that I was able to hold the same doses week to week without feeling different, and that I achieved the weight goals I had set for myself.
I always felt the two days off was sufficient reset for me. In the beginning, I took zero time off because I was dumb and my tolerance got out of control very fast. I could take a full dose and fall asleep two hours later.
When I started 5 on/2 off, my tolerance got back to controlled levels and I never felt like I needed to go further. I'm more tired on the weekends than during the week, but I'm not using any caffeine, and I'm not a zombie.
That said, I've repeatedly endorsed a cautious approach in here, so the last thing I'd do was talk badly about cycling off 2-3 weeks. I just didn't find it necessary for myself.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:16 pm to Rep520
Did you take the ECA stack first thing in the morning? If so, did you put in food with it? I usually don't eat immediately upon waking up and didn't know how this would make me feel on an empty stomach. Did you have any extra nausea when doing so?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 12:25 pm to Rep520
I am in the same boat as you, but like you dont want others to do as me when I know my tolerance. It's why I recommend a complete cycle off of it line recommended in the studies.
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