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Animal protein and endothelial damage
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:11 pm
A family member of mine recently entirely gave up meat and animal products after getting tested and found to have 50% blockage in artery (IIRC).
When I questioned her about the wisdom of this, she told me it’s not the saturated fat alone she is avoiding, it’s that research has shown that the amino acids in animal proteins damage endothelial cells.
When she told me this I was a bit taken aback because I hadn’t heard that specifically before. Google led me to this A Plant-Based Diet, Atherogenesis, and Coronary Artery Disease Prevention
What say y’all? I’m skeptical of any anti-meat information but I want to keep an open mind.
Seems odd that we would evolve to need amino acids that are deadly.
When I questioned her about the wisdom of this, she told me it’s not the saturated fat alone she is avoiding, it’s that research has shown that the amino acids in animal proteins damage endothelial cells.
When she told me this I was a bit taken aback because I hadn’t heard that specifically before. Google led me to this A Plant-Based Diet, Atherogenesis, and Coronary Artery Disease Prevention
quote:
A plant-based diet is increasingly becoming recognized as a healthier alternative to a diet laden with meat. Atherosclerosis associated with high dietary intake of meat, fat, and carbohydrates remains the leading cause of mortality in the US. This condition results from progressive damage to the endothelial cells lining the vascular system
What say y’all? I’m skeptical of any anti-meat information but I want to keep an open mind.
Seems odd that we would evolve to need amino acids that are deadly.
This post was edited on 3/18/24 at 2:19 pm
8
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:17 pm to Earnest_P
If I could cut red meat out completely I would, but life is too short to taste so boring. It's probably also too short because I eat so much of it.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:57 pm to BilbeauTBaggins
quote:
If I could cut red meat out completely I would
Why?
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:57 pm to Earnest_P
its bullshite
but to each their own but tell her to look into studies on pomegranate juice, 100% not from concentrate and its ability to reverse the plaque build up.
but to each their own but tell her to look into studies on pomegranate juice, 100% not from concentrate and its ability to reverse the plaque build up.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 2:57 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
I’m skeptical of any anti-meat information
Posted on 3/18/24 at 3:06 pm to lsu777
quote:
but to each their own but tell her to look into studies on pomegranate juice
I did tell her and also suggested Nattokinase. It’s frustrating to see them
abandoning meat while they simultaneously lose muscle mass. They’ll abandon their diet of 70 years for peas and lentils but won’t lift a weight heavier than the remote.
The abstract on that paper has a lot of “may do” this or that. Also, what seems to me to be prevalent in the mainstream narrative on this stuff is a lot of correlation equals causation which is passed off as proof.
quote:
Atherosclerosis associated with high dietary intake of meat, fat, and carbohydrates remains the leading cause of mortality in the US. This condition results from progressive damage to the endothelial cells lining the vascular system, including the heart, leading to endothelial dysfunction. In addition to genetic factors associated with endothelial dysfunction, many dietary and other lifestyle factors, such as tobacco use, high meat and fat intake, and oxidative stress, are implicated in atherogenesis. Polyphenols derived from dietary plant intake have protective effects on vascular endothelial cells, possibly as antioxidants that prevent the oxidation of low-density lipoprotein. Recently, metabolites of L-carnitine, such as trimethylamine-N-oxide, that result from ingestion of red meat have been identified as a potential predictive marker of coronary artery disease (CAD). Metabolism of L-carnitine by the intestinal microbiome is associated with atherosclerosis in omnivores but not in vegetarians, supporting CAD benefits of a plant-based diet. Trimethylamine-N-oxide may cause atherosclerosis via macrophage activation. We suggest that a shift toward a plant-based diet may confer protective effects against atherosclerotic CAD by increasing endothelial protective factors in the circulation while reducing factors that are injurious to endothelial cells.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 3:13 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
Atherosclerosis associated with high dietary intake of meat, fat, and carbohydrates remains the leading cause of mortality in the US
What else is there?
Posted on 3/18/24 at 3:14 pm to OysterPoBoy
quote:
What else is there?
Maybe the goal is to have a patient who dies of starvation with perfectly clear arteries.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 3:31 pm to Earnest_P
That article is nearly 10 years old. There’s been more research to come out since then to disprove the red meat propaganda.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 3:36 pm to Shepherd88
quote:
That article is nearly 10 years old. There’s been more research to come out since then to disprove the red meat propaganda.
I think it’s what her doctor or whoever advising her is basing the recommendation on. I was looking for research that directly debunked it, and couldn’t find that. The point of the thread is to find it.
This post was edited on 3/18/24 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 3/18/24 at 4:21 pm to Earnest_P
Check out this source.
Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study
Summarized article.
Study slams lazy research
Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study
Summarized article.
Study slams lazy research
This post was edited on 3/18/24 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 3/18/24 at 5:33 pm to Earnest_P
Yep natt is another good one. As is citrus bergmont to help with hdl too
Posted on 3/18/24 at 8:21 pm to Earnest_P
sounds like gobbledygook to me.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 10:21 pm to Earnest_P
quote:It's just absurd on its face that animal protein would JUST NOW start being bad for people.
Animal protein and endothelial damage
A family member of mine recently entirely gave up meat and animal products after getting tested and found to have 50% blockage in artery (IIRC).
When I questioned her about the wisdom of this, she told me it’s not the saturated fat alone she is avoiding, it’s that research has shown that the amino acids in animal proteins damage endothelial cells.
When she told me this I was a bit taken aback because I hadn’t heard that specifically before. Google led me to this A Plant-Based Diet, Atherogenesis, and Coronary Artery Disease Prevention
Posted on 3/20/24 at 10:46 am to Earnest_P
It makes you wonder how much of the "issues"associated with eating meat have to do with meat by itself or rather what yhe animals are eating. I don't know that reasearch has been done into the health factor of say, grass fed and finished beef vs grainfed, or pastured pork and chicken vs grainfed.
I truly believe that factory/industrial farming has done the most harm to our dietary practice.
I truly believe that factory/industrial farming has done the most harm to our dietary practice.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:24 pm to TheFitfulFire
Grass fed beef is nutrionally better but since cattle have 2 stomachs and can ferment grains it doesn’t make the difference as large as it would in poultry.
The biggest aspect of these older studies casting blame on red meat is they’re sampling individuals who are eating processed red meat (fast food) and basing their assumption simply bc they eat red meat and not where it’s sourced. Also they’re also not considering the other shite that comes with fast food (soda, fries cooked in vegetable oils).
The biggest aspect of these older studies casting blame on red meat is they’re sampling individuals who are eating processed red meat (fast food) and basing their assumption simply bc they eat red meat and not where it’s sourced. Also they’re also not considering the other shite that comes with fast food (soda, fries cooked in vegetable oils).
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:04 pm to lsu777
quote:
but to each their own but tell her to look into studies on pomegranate juice, 100% not from concentrate and its ability to reverse the plaque build up.
777 - 2 questions:
1. What amount of consumption is right?
2. What is the most cost effective source?
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:20 pm to Ace Midnight
There is no good evidence that pomegranate juice reduces atherosclerosis in humans. There is poor quality evidence from one scientist (usually a bad sign, increases the risk of bias, both intentional and unintentional) in Israel, a small study that showed a benefit in humans and some studies showing benefit in mutated rats, however the best study on the subject, a much larger randomized multicenter study performed in 2009, showed no benefit. And the same Israeli guy was the senior author on that paper.
I don’t know why Lsu777 continues to act like this is proven when the best evidence says it doesn’t work.
Study link
I don’t know why Lsu777 continues to act like this is proven when the best evidence says it doesn’t work.
Study link
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 3/20/24 at 6:40 pm to Shepherd88
Many of those studies were also funded by the sugar industry. Sugar and beef have been biting at each other for years when really, excess is the largest problem. That and non-holistic farming practices.
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