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Paul Allen
Notre Dame Fan
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
66605 posts
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62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Interesting segment just now on Golf Channel about record scoring week in and week out.

66.6 average this week at Sony Open

42 62’s or better last year in a shortened season.

2010 had 33 62’s or lower for entire year

2000 just 13 62’s or better

Jack Nicklaus mentioned that he would like to see golfers using more of a variety of clubs. It’s now all about crushing a drive 340-360 and using a simple wedge for approach shot.

What can be done to change this aspect of the game becoming easier at its highest level?


bopper50
LSU Fan
Sugarland Texas
Member since Mar 2009
4884 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
The Jeanie is out of the Bottle now, don't know how you can ever change things.

The ball seems to be the culprit according to Jack, but it is a multitude of things (Ball, COR Limits reached, Fitness, Course maintaince and even better mowers)

Cant keep making courses longer because you eliminate too many players.

More and higher rough, bunkers that are really hazards and tighter landing areas is my only answer.


wutangfinancial
LSU Fan
Dallas, TX
Member since Sep 2015
5785 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
People are talking about banning certain driver technology but there's really nothing you can do about it but build harder courses that punish missing fairways from the tee.


northeasttiger
LSU Fan
New York
Member since Sep 2008
2326 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Eliminate rakes in bunkers. Smooth it with foot. Play it as it lies. I play a couple courses like this. Much different. Makes it at least a chance of a penalty. Pros aim for bunkers now.

More tightly mowed areas around greens especially on par 5s. Make it very tight and make chips harder


The Johnny Lawrence
Member since Sep 2016
1614 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
I think they will have to bifurcate for a noticeable difference. They don't need to go back to persimmons, but making pros swing something with a small sweet spot would be a start. Dial the ball back. Make them go back far enough to where they can play some good golden age architecture without extending tees. Make it to where they hit mid irons or long irons into par 4s again.

Seeing guys hit it far and hit a wedge on was cool in 07. It's getting old now and it isn't getting better.


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bradygolf98
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2021
10 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
I don’t like the idea of just tricking up a golf course to make it that tough. Jack is right for the most part with the ball. If you create a ball that spins a little more and exaggerates misses, then it’ll make it tougher. You have to do it in a way where it reduces the distance but not the distance gap which is a tough thing to do, but they have the technology to do that.


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Tyga Woods
US Space Force Fan
South Central Jupiter Island, FL
Member since Sep 2016
12992 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Modern courses are designed to create those kinds of scores. You see how much trouble a well-designed short par 3 like #12 at Augusta can cause.

Offense draws ratings. That’s why the MLB turned a blind eye to the steroid era and why the NFL designs rules to favor quarterbacks and wide receivers. The PGA does the same thing with course selection and setup. The powers that be want low scores. They could make changes with course setup and selection and bring the scores back up if they wanted to.

ETA as a poster mentioned above, make bunkers a true hazard again and remove some that players look at as a good spot to be in. . When guys are aiming at bunkers something needs to be done.
This post was edited on 1/17 at 2:39 pm


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dpd901
LSU Fan
South Louisiana
Member since Apr 2011
6774 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
The ball is a part of it. So is the superior training, nutrition, coaching, technology etc.

However, my opinion is the 460 CC driver head with a sweet spot the size of a grapefruit is the biggest problem. There is almost no penalty for missing the center of the club face. As such, the guys can swing all out on every tee ball. Jack Nicklaus could drive it over 300 when he wanted to with persimmon and balata. But he didn’t often because if he missed the shot by a few millimeters, it was going off the planet.

The key to me is bifurcation on woods for the pros... 300 cc with lower MOI. If they hit the middle, it’s still going forever, but they do it knowing that if they miss they’ll pay a price.


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Rendevoustavern
LSU Fan
First floor Ourso
Member since May 2018
805 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Scoring avg leader last 5 years:
2020 - web simpson 68.978 tour avg 71.099 (58 rounds)
2019 - rory mcilroy 69.058 tour avg 71.213 (72 rounds)
2018 - dustin johnson 68.698 tour avg 71.104 (77 rounds)
2017 - jordan spieth 68.846 tour avg 71.108 (85 rounds)
2016 - dustin johnson 69.172 tour avg 71.181 (87 rounds)
Clearly tech is not advancing so significantly the scores are decreasing, I get Jack's point but guys get hot and play well for one weekend but are not heard of for another few months or the rest of the year.

While I get your point, you're watching a course that isn't setup for a tour player and this is common at a handful of the courses that turn into racetracks on the weekend. Namely TPC and resort courses that are birdie fests.
I would prefer that every course has a required fairway width. I think this would be the easiest change that wouldn't impact current technology cycles. If you walk back tech, that would have a significant impact on everyone that plays competitive golf (re: USGA) requiring everyone to buy new gear to conform. Make all fairways no more than 25 yards wide and have no limit on the height of rough. While players would bitch and moan about lost balls, don't miss the fairway. Maybe hit your 3 wood that is more accurate. Immediately makes the golf course longer.


TiptonInSC
South Carolina Fan
Aiken, SC
Member since Dec 2012
16011 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
quote:

More and higher rough, bunkers that are really hazards and tighter landing areas is my only answer.


/thread


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makersmark1
Auburn Fan
earth
Member since Oct 2011
10289 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Design holes with hazards starting at 300 from the tee.

Make it risk reward.

I’m talking creeks, ponds, coffin bunkers.

Or just face the facts that the best golfers are getting better all the time and low score wins.



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GWfool
George Washington Fan
Member since Aug 2010
2247 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
quote:

Maybe hit your 3 wood that is more accurate. Immediately makes the golf course longer.
tour players aren’t actually significantly more accurate with their 3 wood. They need to roll back the actual equipment through bifurcation. Make it more difficult to hit the clubs but reward those who do. I would say Keith Mitchell’s argument on No Laying Up makes the most sense to me.


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jgoodw318
LSU Fan
Bossier City
Member since Sep 2013
991 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Well, for one, players are better today than they were back in the day. Sure the tech helps out but guys on tour today are so damn good that when they play courses like this one you’re going to have really low scores. It is what it is. Tuning back the ball and/or bifurcation of clubs would do nothing but hurt the game as a whole.


thelawnwranglers
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
31133 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Someone mentioned shortening golf tees

Not sure how effective that would be


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CoachChappy
LSU Fan
Member since May 2013
27127 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
quote:

Well, for one, players are better today than they were back in the day. Sure the tech helps out but guys on tour today are so damn goo


Look at the average golfer in Jacks day vs today. Golfers are athletes now.

Also they have perfectly fitted clubs and balls. The data they have available to them is incredible.


jgoodw318
LSU Fan
Bossier City
Member since Sep 2013
991 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
quote:

Golfers are athletes now


Exactly my point. There are guys out there now that are smaller in stature but can still absolutely BOMB the ball. JT is a great example of this. Dude can’t weigh more than 175 but can bomb it 300+ whenever he wants. Sure, the tech helps out, but it’s not all tech. His swing speed is up there with the whip he’s able to create. And then look at guys like DJ and Rory and koepka, they all look built like professional athletes.

I mean look at Jack and Arnie in their younger days. They were two of the biggest guys on tour. Jack is just complaining because even in his old age he’s still as competitive as anybody on tour today and he doesn’t want Tiger or anybody else getting close to his records.

My biggest point for all of this is if the PGA Tour is going to continue to play on courses like the one they’re playing this week then don’t complain about the scores being put up. Players are better as a whole - in ALL aspects of the game. It’s not just because of tech - even tho that does have something to do with it. But these players are training smarter, they make better decisions on the course, and their level of execution is so much higher than times past.


tigerinthebueche
LSU Fan
Erwinville, LA.
Member since Oct 2010
27168 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Glad I’m not athletic and all that technology doesn’t help me so I can still enjoy the challenge of the game.


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BabyTac
Louisiana Tech Fan
Austin, TX
Member since Jun 2008
7731 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
Golf has really just become a putting contest


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marcnbc
LSU Fan
Bossier City, LA
Member since May 2004
3893 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
quote:

JT is a great example of this. Dude can’t weigh more than 175 but can bomb it 300+ whenever he wants.


He’s listed at 5’10 160#....but like you said, he can drive 300+ whenever he wants.


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CFDoc
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2013
1476 posts

re: 62 is the new 66. Does the PGA need an overhaul?
I think a lot of y’all are looking at this as some sort of problem and the PGA tour has lost control of scoring. It’s not and they haven’t.

The golf channel is doing nothing more than making a dramatic story to generate a debate.

The real truth is that the PGA tour has one job to do week in and week out. That job is to bring in as many viewers as possible to keep TV contracts at a maximum and sponsors lining up to throw millions at them.

The PGA tour has spent tons and tons of time, energy, and money researching the type of golf that draws the most viewers. And the answer is overwhelmingly long drives, lawn darts, and low scores. This is a fact. You may not like it, but you are the minority.

With few exceptions, the week to week setup for a PGA tour event would be a 5 or 6 out of 10 on what that course could be set up difficulty wise. Colonial is a perfect example of an exception. And it’s a short course by any standard. How do they do it? Simple, small greens and difficult pins. That’s it. And 10 under will often win that event.

Making the best in the world shoot par is very easy. Long rough, narrow fairways, tight pins, firm greens, and make all par 3’s over 200 yards. Done. But nobody would watch.



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