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cigsmcgee
Arkansas Fan
LR
Member since May 2012
4244 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

Which one of these is too difficult for you?


Neither, but i also understand the world isnt like an episode of Leave it to Beaver.



Esquire
USA Fan
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
4755 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
You’d prefer it more like 1984.


cigsmcgee
Arkansas Fan
LR
Member since May 2012
4244 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

You’d prefer it more like 1984.


Ah yes. Surprised it took this many pages.

Its like objectivist neckbeard bingo.




Esquire
USA Fan
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
4755 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
You're the one who ran out of arguments and resorted to hyperbolic cultural references. I'm just better at it. Please continue to discuss why the average parent is incapable of stopping their kid from using the family credit card.


Greace
LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
3557 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
Exactly why do we disallow kids in casinos then?


cigsmcgee
Arkansas Fan
LR
Member since May 2012
4244 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

You're the one who ran out of arguments and resorted to hyperbolic cultural references


Says the guy whos trying to argue a ban on gambling systems in all ages video games leads to an orwellian nightmare.



Esquire
USA Fan
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
4755 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

Exactly why do we disallow kids in casinos then?


Loot boxes are Pokemon card packs, not blackjack tables. Once again, how hard is it to stop your kid from charging your credit card?


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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
32475 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

You can't resell those items for pure money. You can only trade them for other items within that game. So no, you can't resell them like you can something like CS:GO skins.


So wait... now we're talking about re-selling for real money instead of ingame money or a trade? Maybe I should just wait until you've settled on what your definition is...

quote:

I haven't moved the goalposts at all. The two of you just have a combined IQ of a 3rd grader.




To your new definition though, I don't know of any games that actually allow selling back items for real-world money. There may be some but I've never heard of them. If there are, that's a decision they've made as a business, not because it's dictated by some nitwit in Congress being pushed by people who don't want their lack of impulse control challenged.

quote:

Supporting =/= begging. Find a dictionary.


Supporting those begging for it is so close to begging as to have no real difference. Learn to understand context... and not move the goal posts.

That you've keyed into terminology to hard screams of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks".

quote:

And the exact reason why the "free market will fix this" is one of the dumbest statements you can make on this subject.


The free market will fix it once it determines it's no longer worthwhile. Your impatience to the point of wanting to force the issue via legislation is as juvenile and self-centered as it is lazy and short-sighted.


Centinel
Alabama Fan
South Carolina
Member since Sep 2016
17522 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

a ban on gambling systems in all ages video games


There's a possible monetary payout for lootboxes? Because that's what's required for something to be considered gambling. And even then there are exceptions, notably raffles and bingo, which children can participate in legally.



This post was edited on 5/15 at 10:50 am


LSU Coyote
Houston Astros Fan
Member since Sep 2007
22865 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
D3 but gone and many games where you indirectly sell items and can cash out with another service.


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Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38282 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

The free market will fix it once it determines it's no longer worthwhile.


quote:

Supporting those begging for it is so close to begging as to have no real difference.
So now you're moving the goalposts to "supporting is basically the same as begging."

quote:

Learn to understand context... and not move the goal posts.
Wait a minute...
quote:

I don't know of any games that actually allow selling back items for real-world money.
Then you should probably stop talking about a subject you know nothing about, because one of the original instances of these lootboxes (CS:GO) has been tradeable for money through the steam marketplace since its inception.


Drewbie
Arkansas Fan
tFlagship
Member since Jun 2012
38282 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

There's a possible monetary payout for lootboxes? Because that's what's required for something to be considered gambling.
Wrong again. The gambling commission ruled that it's gambling as long as the items are tradeable.


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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
32475 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

slap an AO on any game that converts cash into in-game currency used to buy loot boxes and see if that stems the tide.



I have no problem with this but it would ultimately end up being a worthless effort. Most kids that play these games do so with either parental consent of some sort or have figured out how to fake the consent. The adults that have impulse control issues with loot boxes will not be impacted at all.

quote:

which can easily lead to an addictive response, especially to minors who are cognitively more susceptible to aggressive marketing and addictive behavior.


This is where parental responsibility comes into play. This means not only making sure your credit card info isn't cached but limiting the time the child can play as well as discussing with them the negatives of loot boxes.

Here's a novel idea: maybe even find a game the two of you can play together. This offers something to bond over as well as opportunities to discuss the aforementioned negatives of loot boxes, behavior, etc.


Greace
LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
3557 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

opportunities to discuss the aforementioned negatives of loot boxes,


Yeah man. Explain to a 5 yr old exactly what is wrong with lootboxes. Sounds reasonable


Esquire
USA Fan
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
4755 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

Yeah man. Explain to a 5 yr old exactly what is wrong with lootboxes. Sounds reasonable


Or just let him keep charging your card until the government saves you from crippling debt.


Greace
LSU Fan
Member since May 2009
3557 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
I mean if your okay with game company's conditioning kids to this sort of practice that makes them millions for no reason other than they've discovered its an option for them more power to you. I think its a sick practice that really doesn't deserve any place in video games.


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cigsmcgee
Arkansas Fan
LR
Member since May 2012
4244 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

I have no problem with this but it would ultimately end up being a worthless effort. Most kids that play these games do so with either parental consent of some sort or have figured out how to fake the consent. The adults that have impulse control issues with loot boxes will not be impacted at all.


true, but a company like EA would certainly think twice about releasing Star Wars, Madden, of Fifa with an AO rating. its not perfect, but it would certainly have some kind of effect. as far as adults, they are already allowed to gamble so i dont see an issue there. labeling loot boxes as such merely equals with it other gambling games already rated AO.

quote:

Here's a novel idea: maybe even find a game the two of you can play together. This offers something to bond over as well as opportunities to discuss the aforementioned negatives of loot boxes, behavior, etc.


and here's where your fantasy ideals clash with responsible civic duty. how is that offering more freedom than removing a predatory scam?


Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
32475 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

So now you're moving the goalposts to "supporting is basically the same as begging."


Swing-and-a-miss! Again... "context". Continual support to the level you've delved to is basically the same as begging. Again, the focusing on this particular terminology is

quote:

Then you should probably stop talking about a subject you know nothing about,


So your entire stance is because someone hasn't encountered one aspect of a subject then they "know nothing" about it at all? That's often one of the last refuges of failed arguments so... congrats on finally hitting bottom?

Even if they are allowed to sell back for real world money... so what? As long as it's not blatantly false advertising, it's still the consumer's responsibility to exert some self-control. If there are any instances where it is false advertising, there are already laws on the books about that.


In all of this back and forth with you pro-legislation folks none of the stances you've provided as a "need" really move far beyond the level of just a "want".

Gambling:
--It's no more gambling than trading cards or buying a box of Cracker Jacks

Because it's ruining games:
--Conjecture based on personal preferences

Addiction:
--Lack of self-control and personal responsibility

And finally there's this...

quote:

quote:

The free market will fix it once it determines it's no longer worthwhile.






I've been gaming longer than some on this board have been alive and in that time I've seen shit-tons of games and funding systems come and go. Gaming choices are at an all-time high now with some of it because of loot boxes via the profits they pull in.

This is all really no different than arcade games back in the 80s and early 90s. Those old stand-up machines became such money generators that you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting one or two. Almost every convenience store had one and every mall had at least one arcade with dozens of games and they were almost always in use.

Eventually though the consumer base moved on due to other options and due to what I can only describe as the building up of tolerance to the "fun" of playing the game to the point where it was no longer worth paying $.25 to start or continue a game. This will end up happening with loot boxes because the consumer base will tire of the nickel-and-diming and there are simply not enough whales to keep games afloat by themselves.


Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
32475 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

Yeah man. Explain to a 5 yr old exactly what is wrong with lootboxes. Sounds reasonable


Anyone allowing a 5yr old to play a game that has loot boxes gets what they deserve. Being a more responsible parent instead of a walking "yes" machine would be the better option.


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Bard
LA-Monroe Fan
Tigerdroppings Platinum Member
Member since Oct 2008
32475 posts

re: U.S. Senator Introduces Bill to Ban Pay to Win Micro and Loot Boxes
quote:

quote:

Here's a novel idea: maybe even find a game the two of you can play together. This offers something to bond over as well as opportunities to discuss the aforementioned negatives of loot boxes, behavior, etc.


and here's where your fantasy ideals clash with responsible civic duty. how is that offering more freedom than removing a predatory scam?


First off, "scam" heavily infers fraud and that's illegal. If a company is perpetrating a fraud then they need to be brought to court. What I wouldn't mind seeing is the ESRB putting out a requirement that games post (in an easily accessed manner) their intended and actual statistics on loot box rewards, with updates made daily (if not in real time).

Second, it's not just "fantasy ideals", it's actual real-world parenting that goes on every day with kids of all ages.



It's only "fantasy ideals" for those that aren't parents or those who are that have trouble saying "no" and sticking with it.


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