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FF7 battle system is severely flawed

Posted on 6/9/20 at 11:36 am
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
72025 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 11:36 am
They really didn’t do a good job on it.

It is as if they wanted to retain the constant need for item usage that came along with turn-based systems while trying to add in hack and slash that doesn’t function well.

Dodge is useless. The hit box is massive and attacks are homing to the point where it doesn’t matter anyway.

What really gets on my nerves is when you are facing an enemy who uses an attack that you have to dodge, like Reno.

You can’t block some of his attacks, but the dodge mechanic is severely flawed and it makes the battle a game of luck.

I want to like the game, I really do, but it is getting to be a chore and I know I’m not even to the bosses or gameplay where it supposedly really becomes a chore.

It just seems as if they half-assed the fighting mechanics, or at least didn’t think them through well enough.

Probably not a popular opinion.
This post was edited on 6/9/20 at 11:37 am
Posted by Blitzed
Member since Oct 2009
21286 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 11:52 am to
Had no issues with it. However I never dodge so I cant relate to your complaints. Maybe take your beating like a man and it will be better for you.

I personally would like a gambit system(optional) applied. Much like 13 or 12's.
This post was edited on 6/9/20 at 11:56 am
Posted by caro81
Member since Jul 2017
4865 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 12:04 pm to
i was ok with it. i do agree its a little sloppy, but workable.
Posted by musick
the internet
Member since Dec 2008
26125 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 12:06 pm to
This for sure need it's own thread
Posted by ElRoos
Member since Nov 2017
7202 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

You can’t block some of his attacks, but the dodge mechanic is severely flawed and it makes the battle a game of luck.


Which attacks are you talking about? I don't remember Reno having any unblockable attacks. He has an attack you cannot counter with Cloud's punisher mode iirc. Rude has some unblockable grabs if that's what you meant.

quote:

Dodge is useless. The hit box is massive and attacks are homing to the point where it doesn’t matter anyway.


Depends what attacks you are trying to dodge (or what character you are dodging with). Dodges don't have i-frames like in Dark Souls. You can get the parry materia to essentially act as a dodge with i-frames while also dealing damage to the enemy (it's best on Tifa or Cloud but mainly Tifa). You can definitely use dodge to dodge instant spells getting casted at you like fire and thunder or use it to get out of blizzard and aero magic that takes a second to hit you. Other than that, it's better to use it for gap closing or for baiting enemies from afar like the Hell House.

quote:

I want to like the game, I really do, but it is getting to be a chore and I know I’m not even to the bosses or gameplay where it supposedly really becomes a chore.

It just seems as if they half-assed the fighting mechanics, or at least didn’t think them through well enough.

Probably not a popular opinion.


I think your frustrations are understandable. The gameplay didn't start kicking with me until near the end where I actually had to learn how to counter/parry/other skills that made the later bosses much more manageable. Not to mention hard mode where you absolutely need to be good at the battle system to succeed.

I feel like a lot of people are trying to compare this game to like DMC or other action games with RPG elements, but this game by design is the opposite: an RPG with action elements. You're expected to take damage and not rely on rolls, i.e. the first game. Proper materia set up, healing, and timing is really what this game is all about. Of course, I've seen videos online of people playing this game like an action game at a very advanced level (even no damage runs), but that's way over my head lol.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45084 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

It is as if they wanted to retain the constant need for item usage that came along with turn-based systems while trying to add in hack and slash that doesn’t function well.


Can’t use items on hard mode which is where the system shines imo, but I felt this way too. I was burning through items at first.

quote:

Dodge is useless. The hit box is massive and attacks are homing to the point where it doesn’t matter anyway.


I haven’t experienced this with anyone aside from Barrett.

quote:

You can’t block some of his attacks, but the dodge mechanic is severely flawed and it makes the battle a game of luck.


First time I fought him I got rocked. Then I learned you have to use punisher mode and you tear him apart. Some enemies require punisher mode to counter their attacks.
Posted by Mystery
Member since Jan 2009
9003 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 12:25 pm to
If you are spamming items you are doing something really wrong.
Its not an action game.
Posted by BulldogXero
Member since Oct 2011
9762 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 3:46 pm to
The battle system is good until it isn't then it sucks.

My only complaint is needing to play aggressively to build the ATB gauge. Sometimes you need to heal or use an item, but you can't do anything because the boss can't be damaged.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45084 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

My only complaint is needing to play aggressively to build the ATB gauge. Sometimes you need to heal or use an item, but you can't do anything because the boss can't be damaged.


I didn’t use any ATB materia in my normal run, but discovered it in hard mode and it makes a TON of difference.

Steadfast block, first strike, ATB boost, ATB assist/stagger are all very clutch once you figure them out.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66380 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 3:59 pm to
just wait till you start getting to bosses that are resistant to the elemental materia you have junctioned

ill save you some time, just quit immediately and redo your materia, then redo the fight
Posted by MFn GIMP
Member since Feb 2011
19295 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

Probably not a popular opinion

I agree with you but I am a turned-based rpg man and I will be until the day I die. I really enjoyed the story of the remake but the battle system didn't do it for me.
Posted by Hulkklogan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2010
43296 posts
Posted on 6/9/20 at 7:51 pm to
That's gonna be a no from me dawg

I loved the battle system. If you're playing like a hack and slash you're doing it wrong. You have to be strategic about when to hack and slash, and you need to block a bunch.


Honestly though, I didn't figure out the battle system until hard mode. On normal mode I just set Barrett up as a super tank, high HP and his skill that lets him take dmg for the team, then hack and slashed and brute forced my way through with Regen on Barrett and barrier on the whole team.

Hard mode forces you to pump the brakes and figure shite out because boss fights will light your arse up if you don't. Hell house was a bitch in hard mode.
This post was edited on 6/9/20 at 7:54 pm
Posted by BulldogXero
Member since Oct 2011
9762 posts
Posted on 6/10/20 at 10:54 am to
quote:

I agree with you but I am a turned-based rpg man and I will be until the day I die. I really enjoyed the story of the remake but the battle system didn't do it for me.


Hybrid combat systems I don't think will ever be as good as pure turn-based or pure action combat, but they do carry a broader appeal.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 7/5/20 at 11:03 pm to
I actually agree with all of this. For all of the crap people gave FFXV for its battle system, it feels way more fun and rewarding than FFVII Remake. The battles feel like a bit of a slog, and I still don’t understand the arbitrary wait times between when I can use an item. It feels like they tried to find a middle ground between the original turn/time based system and real time hack and slash and ended up with something that isn’t quite either and isn’t quite fun.
Posted by McCaigBro69
TigerDroppings Premium Member
Member since Oct 2014
45084 posts
Posted on 7/5/20 at 11:10 pm to
quote:

I still don’t understand the arbitrary wait times between when I can use an item.


Because the game doesn't want you to spam health and buff items. It makes sense in that regard.

There are materia you can equip to boost ATB.
Posted by Blitzed
Member since Oct 2009
21286 posts
Posted on 7/6/20 at 11:59 am to
To much hack and slash....not enough hack and slash. Ohh no I have to prep for bosses. Ohh the humanityyyyyy. Sorry everything isn't as dull and repetitive as The Witchers combat.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67009 posts
Posted on 7/6/20 at 1:21 pm to
To me, it feels like it’s trying to do two things at once while doing neither one particularly well.
Posted by Blitzed
Member since Oct 2009
21286 posts
Posted on 7/6/20 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

To me, it feels like it’s trying to do two things at once


Which is why I am a supporter of Gambit system. I can totally understand how you feel. I felt that way at times when I needed to really focus which wasn't much during the game because for a large portion of it I was just going through the motions which is fine and dandy until it isn't....
Posted by KamaCausey_LSU
Member since Apr 2013
14482 posts
Posted on 7/8/20 at 10:36 am to
This thread reminded me to buy the game.

I would love a Gambit system. The first boss battle was a pain. I'm sure it'll be much easier in my replay. Had to heal up way too many times this run.
Posted by Blitzed
Member since Oct 2009
21286 posts
Posted on 7/8/20 at 2:09 pm to
Yeah it was easier for me on hard mode...only because I knew more.
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