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Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:42 pm to Mystery
50 in a couple of months. 
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:42 pm to DoUrden
Okay, not that old.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:43 pm to DoUrden
quote:I'll bow out of this now.
50 in a couple of months
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:47 pm to Doldil
quote:
Let's be honest, we've all played EQ and sat around for a couple of hours on lists lfg, hoping the spot opens up in a timely manner, only for the group to dissolve once you get there, or by the time you get an invite it's time to log off. Having solo content is nice, or having classes that can solo is nice. There's just too much solo content in MMO's now.
Oh absolutely. I think a lot of us look back at the EQ days with rose tinted glasses, but there were negative aspects to it as well.
I think EverQuest was essentially the first "themepark" MMORPG. Themepark in that it locked players in to a specific class with specific abilities pre-determined by level. Almost all classes/skills directly tied into combat. There was no player housing or interdependent economy hence not much of a sense of actually "living" in the world. At least not like Ultima Online.
That said, I remember playing EQ2 in 2004 where every zone had like one little patch of area dedicated to "soloing" that just let you grind mobs repeatedly.
The problem with group-based content is that it is directly at odds with quest-based progression. It doesn't work when you're in the middle of a group quest chain, have to leave, then when you get back are stuck trying to find a group that is on the very specific step of the quest that you're currently on.
I think with these themepark MMOs, you have to provide players with a variety of different means of leveling up. Again with WoW in 2018, you can level entirely through questing solo, PVP, or running dungeons repeatedly.
Many other MMORPGs have instant battleground PVP and a dungeon finder but the developers have done little to actively encourage players to utilize them.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:49 pm to Mystery
Not my fault MMO's came later in my life. My first gaming system was a C-64 in '86 to a C-128, then military lag, and my first computer 486 DX2.
My first gaming system was a C-64 in '86 to a C-128, then military lag, and my first computer 486 DX2. This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:50 pm to Mystery
quote:
Okay, not that old.
Me either.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:52 pm to DoUrden
quote:I don't really have the ties to WoW that a Vanilla player would. I mostly came up on F2P Korean style MMOs that were notorious for being complete grind-fests. WoW was a massive change in MMO style for me. Some changes I liked, some I didn't. In the end, the raiding and overall better PvE content is what drew me to WoW to stay. There are times I miss the grindy progression of having to punch a dummy for hours upon hours to level up my Sword Skill to unlock new abilities, or having to go kill 100 Zombie Gryphons for a single quest, but overall what makes WoW so good to me is the sheer amount of content AFTER you hit max level. The fact that there's more to do than just PvP once you've done all the quests and powered your character was a welcome change to me.
I paid for three EQ subs a month when I played, and didn't give it a 2nd thought. I did play WoW for a long time after the EQ declined. I miss the community, challenge, and time it took to learn and progess in EQ, I do not miss anything about WoW, as I said I think it's a generation thing.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:53 pm to Drewbie
Going back and soloing old school raids for transmog items is legit.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:53 pm to DoUrden
OK EQ story time, I ran out of Surfall, spent a week killing things, I fished some sandals out of the pond and wore them for at least another week. Some high levels were camping Haden and gifted me some gear and I felt like a god so I went into Blackburrow and died losing everything (along with some exp), I met them the next day and they took me to my gear. I thought they were gods in the game. That's the kind of think you don't get in WoW.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:54 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
Yes the dungeons are faceroll easy and people rarely chat but I blame the fast-paced (relatively speaking) combat system and the need to always be on the move rather than sticking to a specific spot in the zone for the lack of players being social with one another.
I agree. If I run an Alert (4-man dungeon) in DCUO we are fighting pretty much non-stop except for cut-scenes. While we're constantly on the move, people rarely use even the ingame voice chat (which can be a good thing after you run one too many with asshats that use hot mics).
quote:
Combat in a game like EQ or DAoC was arguably even more simplistic than WoW, so it has nothing really to do with difficulty level.
Yes and no. The raid bosses certainly weren't as mechanics driven, but the co-ordination needed without voice chat meant players had to be more attentive to their character as well as the boss they were fighting.
As a bard I was not only having to juggle three songs (manasong, haste and str/dex) but also had to make sure I had a few others handy just in case (charm, mezz, something with an interrupt) just in case we got adds or a healer or chanter missed a cast. And that was just one class. Tanks had to make sure their Taunt was up high enough, DPS had to make sure not to get too hot or else they would pull aggro from the tank, etc.
And, at least with EQ, you had to worry about loss of exp when you died. That damned sure made people pay more attention.
Today's bosses may have more mechanics but that's just to compensate for the added cohesion that voice chat and pluggable apps (like in ESO) can bring.
All-in-all I would say boss fights are about the same level of difficulty when the extra player tools are calculated in but anything lower than boss fights are generally going to be weaker because games today aren't set up to be such a challenging grind.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:55 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
I think EverQuest was essentially the first "themepark" MMORPG. Themepark in that it locked players in to a specific class with specific abilities pre-determined by level. Almost all classes/skills directly tied into combat. There was no player housing or interdependent economy hence not much of a sense of actually "living" in the world. At least not like Ultima Online.
Eh?
I'd disagree. When I say themepark, I'm specifically referring to how the world was built. In EQ you could wander, do things in any order, go anywhere, fight anything. Crafting wasn't heavy early on (that's where SWG shined), so it was still battle focused, but it felt like an adventure.
WoW was a themepark in that you always HAD something to do. You couldn't sit still. You had this quest to that quest to that quest. EQ had no quest chains early on. You had gated and locked content. You had epic raids that were basically themeparks, and you had things to do that unlocked everything. It was tedious.
You have attractions to see everywhere, and if you aren't following the paths, you'll get left behind in line. And then you have legitimate lines
That's a theme park.
Kobold Trains are not theme parks
Those are legit oh shite moments that come out of the blue while you're adventuring.This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:56 pm to BulldogXero
quote:Being able to take my time in Icecrown Citadel and take it all in solo has been one of my favorite experiences so far. There have been many many times I've said to myself that I wished I'd followed my gut and let myself sub during Wrath of the Lich King. I even bought a battle chest that came with BC and installed WoW through discs at one point, but one month was as far as I went. It just didn't grab me back then for some reason.
Going back and soloing old school raids for transmog items is legit.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:56 pm to Freauxzen
TRAIN RIGHT!!!
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:56 pm to Bard
quote:
As a bard
HE Bard as my first character. Twisting was a legit skill. Things like that have been lost as well.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:56 pm to Drewbie
quote:
ut overall what makes WoW so good to me is the sheer amount of content AFTER you hit max level. The fact that there's more to do than just PvP once you've done all the quests and powered your character was a welcome change to me.
I've always enjoyed the journey to the end more than the end game itself. I was an EQ Player that constantly re-rolled or created new characters. If I would have actually played the characters I deleted and recreated over and over and over again I would have had a shite ton of 50's (60, 65 etc etc) Once I hit the end game of raiding (never actually happened on live, only on EMU's) I would get bored and quit
I love the grind, and being able to meet new people and BS with them while we played was amazing.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 4:57 pm to DoUrden
quote:
TRAIN RIGHT!!!
Posted on 8/2/18 at 5:01 pm to Bard
quote:
Yes and no. The raid bosses certainly weren't as mechanics driven, but the co-ordination needed without voice chat meant players had to be more attentive to their character as well as the boss they were fighting.
Voice chat has been around for a long time. I remember using Teamspeak in EQ in 03/04. Also, consider that there was no limit (for the most part) to the number of players who could attend a raid. You could literally raid a boss with 100 other players. To a degree, that may make communication more difficult but it also leaves larger room for error given that you're not limited to 12 or 24 people pulling their weight.
quote:
And, at least with EQ, you had to worry about loss of exp when you died. That damned sure made people pay more attention.
This doesn't really have to do with the difficulty of the combat though. If anything, I've always felt like the harsh death penalties in EQ discouraged exploration. I never went anywhere without a Cleric or Necromancer.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 5:08 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
WoW was a themepark in that you always HAD something to do. You couldn't sit still. You had this quest to that quest to that quest. EQ had no quest chains early on. You had gated and locked content. You had epic raids that were basically themeparks, and you had things to do that unlocked everything. It was tedious
ok I'll be honest. When I played WoW when it launched, I had no idea what I was doing. All I did was grind mobs repeatedly wondering when the group content kicked in. I took my night elf warrior all the way to Stormwind at like level 12, so I wouldn't say you can't explore.
WoW is an amazing game for exploring the world, especially with the advent of flying mounts providing the ablity to reach otherwise unreachable places.
quote:
You have attractions to see everywhere, and if you aren't following the paths, you'll get left behind in line. And then you have legitimate lines
Again I would say that WoW does provide more than a single area at a given level range. This means that you're not constantly railroaded through the same content. Like EQ, you can take one character through one area and another one through some place else although there's not as much freedom there as I would like.
I would say that EQ is amazing for the shear amount of options you have in terms of places to go for leveling. Part of this though is because it is so old and SOE has always cranked out expansions for that game. The earlier expansions in particular provided content for even low levels.
The problem with EQ though is that certain zones are a lot more viable than others. Not much reason to take a low level character through Kurn's Tower unless for nostalgia's sake or you're looking to farm bone chips.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 5:11 pm to BulldogXero
quote:
This doesn't really have to do with the difficulty of the combat though. If anything, I've always felt like the harsh death penalties in EQ discouraged exploration. I never went anywhere without a Cleric or Necromancer.
Yeah we switched from Death Penalties to Gates and restricted freedoms. Exploring was probably my second or third favorite thing to do in EQ even with the DP. And I did get myself into tight situations, but I also was randomly PL'd occasionally because of it to. That was always nice.
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