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The over emphasis of roux being the difference maker in a gumbo
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:35 am
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:35 am
You hear it all the time, people putting so much attention on roux in a chicken gumbo, but far far less on stock and ingredients that actually makes any soup a soup. Whether it’s gumbo, a chowder, a bisque, vichyssoise, or any other bechamel based soup, roux is simply a thickening agent, but the flavor is in the actual stock and ingredients used, as well as techniques employed. Because it being a soup and mostly liquid. Roux is for the most part simply pass/fail. You either did it right, or you ruined it, but other than how much you browned it, it’s not adding a difference maker flavor to your soup. That comes mostly from stock, something many people put far less emphasis on in general, as many just boil chicken in water or purchase store bought stock or base, and never achieve that luxurious buttery flavor that comes from marrow and gelatin attained in a proper stock.
I fully realize that gumbo translates to family tradition, and is a touchy subject because people perceive it as an insult to momma or the family if you don’t do it like momma did it, or bring into question long-standing beliefs and traditions, but I believe if you’re truly trying to make next level gumbo, it is important to get to the bottom of just what takes gumbo to the next level. And look, not all stocks are created equal, not by a long stretch, but I believe the secret to any soup is in the stock and ingredients, not the thickening agent.
Roasting chicken carcasses, wings, feet, or any knuckle/joint portion is going to make a difference in the flavor of your stock. Using smoked necks in your stock makes a real difference in flavor. How long you cook your stock or using a pressure cooker or what have you to make stock can play a role in getting the flavor out. Proportion of water to bones plays a role as well as veg/spice in the stock.
I truly hope people don’t see this as an insult to family or long held beliefs, but I think it has to be said once and for all. The end result is what most everyone is after, and that which takes it over the top is critical to achieving that.
I fully realize that gumbo translates to family tradition, and is a touchy subject because people perceive it as an insult to momma or the family if you don’t do it like momma did it, or bring into question long-standing beliefs and traditions, but I believe if you’re truly trying to make next level gumbo, it is important to get to the bottom of just what takes gumbo to the next level. And look, not all stocks are created equal, not by a long stretch, but I believe the secret to any soup is in the stock and ingredients, not the thickening agent.
Roasting chicken carcasses, wings, feet, or any knuckle/joint portion is going to make a difference in the flavor of your stock. Using smoked necks in your stock makes a real difference in flavor. How long you cook your stock or using a pressure cooker or what have you to make stock can play a role in getting the flavor out. Proportion of water to bones plays a role as well as veg/spice in the stock.
I truly hope people don’t see this as an insult to family or long held beliefs, but I think it has to be said once and for all. The end result is what most everyone is after, and that which takes it over the top is critical to achieving that.
10
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:40 am to Mike da Tigah
All true (troux?), but it's going to piss people off.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:41 am to Mike da Tigah
Fry chicken in oil
Make roux in oil
Then make the gumbo
Make roux in oil
Then make the gumbo
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:48 am to Mike da Tigah
At least site whatever source you stole this from.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:49 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
All true (troux?), but it's going to piss people off.
I know you’re right, but for the sake of those who really do want to take it over the top, I think it’s important to know where to put the emphasis on in order to achieve it.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:50 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
At least site whatever source you stole this from.
Mike da Tigah
Posted on 2/19/21 at 9:58 am to Mike da Tigah
That’s a whole lot of typing to state the obvious. The quality of the ingredients matters most? Really? Whoda thunk it?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone argue about the importance of the roux in a gumbo. I’ve seen many debates about what makes one roux better than another and twice as many about the difficulty or ease of making one. But I’ve seldom (if ever) seen anyone say the roux is more crucial than the ingredients. I’ve seen many complain about a bad roux ruining a dish tho.
You’re correct in your summation FWIW. But it’s applicable to any dish- quality ingredients are vital to a quality meal.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone argue about the importance of the roux in a gumbo. I’ve seen many debates about what makes one roux better than another and twice as many about the difficulty or ease of making one. But I’ve seldom (if ever) seen anyone say the roux is more crucial than the ingredients. I’ve seen many complain about a bad roux ruining a dish tho.
You’re correct in your summation FWIW. But it’s applicable to any dish- quality ingredients are vital to a quality meal.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:00 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
I truly hope people don’t see this as an insult to family or long held beliefs
You're not some revolutionary in your beliefs. Everyone would agree that higher quality ingredients generally result in better results.
a good homemade stock beats a box stock every time. It's a process though and you need to plan well in advance.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:01 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone argue about the importance of the roux in a gumbo. I’ve seen many debates about what makes one roux better than another and twice as many about the difficulty or ease of making one. But I’ve seldom (if ever) seen anyone say the roux is more crucial than the ingredients. I’ve seen many complain about a bad roux ruining a dish tho.
The point is that people will spend hours obsessing over and tending the perfect mahogany roux and then dump a can of best value chicken stock and sliced Manda sausage into the pot.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:03 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
but other than how much you browned it, it’s not adding a difference maker flavor to your soup.
This is a huge difference maker and this step is as important as the other ingredients.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:05 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
people putting so much attention on roux in a chicken gumbo, but far far less on stock and ingredients that actually makes any soup a soup
Why can't both be true? A bad roux makes a bad gumbo just as a bad stock does.
quote:
Roux is for the most part simply pass/fail. You either did it right, or you ruined it, but other than how much you browned it, it’s not adding a difference maker flavor to your soup.
Yes to your first part, but absolutely wrong on the second. The deep, rich, toasty flavor you get in your gumbo? That's the roux. It 100% adds flavor, but it's not the ONLY flavor added. The stock and fixins all play an important role as well to obtaining the final flavor profile.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:05 am to Saskwatch
quote:
You're not some revolutionary in your beliefs.
I didn’t say I was, and not everything has to be an argument. I’m not mad, but there are a lot of people, especially beginners who have the whole roux emphasis drilled into their heads. That’s inescapable if you ever read anything online.
The fact that people will consistently tell you that you absolutely have to make your roux from scratch or it’s garbage, but will pick up stock at the store in a heartbeat, or just boil chicken in water is clear evidence of where the emphasis is placed.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:05 am to Saskwatch
quote:
good homemade stock beats a box stock every time. It's a process though and you need to plan well in advance.
Exactly. I doubt anyone would argue to the contrary. But in the name of expediency, boxed chicken stock or similar will do for the cook who doesn’t have time to make a “home made” stock.
Sorta like buying Guidry’s trinity so you don’t have to chop all that shite yourself. I could grow my own garlic too, if I had time.
ETA: I don’t use precut veggies. That I do insist on doing myself.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:07 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
but it's going to piss people off.
It's his tone. He spent four paragraphs of self-congratulatory pomposity to say something most people realize is obvious. You haven't met Mike before?
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:12 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
The point is that people will spend hours obsessing over and tending the perfect mahogany roux and then dump a can of best value chicken stock and sliced Manda sausage into the pot.
What if they actually like Manda sausage?
I get the point, but some people prefer One brand of sausage over the other. And the stock thing is a Matter of time.
I’m not fussing at the OP. I just think it’s a solution in search of a problem.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:12 am to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
It's his tone. He spent four paragraphs of self-congratulatory pomposity to say something most people realize is obvious. You haven't met Mike before?
I was as conciliatory as humanly possible, knowing full well how sensitive this subject matter is to people, but one thing I know today, is people wear their feelings on their sleeves, and it doesn’t matter what you say. If they want to get upset, they will find something to get upset over. Tis the environment in 2021 in everything discussed on the planet. Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:25 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Mike da Tigah
I disagree Harvey...or is it Roscoe?
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:38 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
Midget Death Squad
Agreed. I’m not super picky about how dark you get your roux, but enough roux being in the gumbo is make or break for me. A lot of older folks (at least in my experience) make gumbo with so little roux that it just doesn’t have that rich gumbo taste I’m looking for. Yes, roux is a thickener, but it’s a thickener with a lot of flavor and for me personally, the thicker the better.
Posted on 2/19/21 at 10:52 am to Mike da Tigah
I don't think it's over-emphasized. Most people here seem to be big on claiming that a really good stock will take gumbo to the next level. But I don't think it should be downplayed that using things like rendered animal fat to make a roux also adds a lot.
This post was edited on 2/19/21 at 10:53 am
Posted on 2/19/21 at 11:56 am to Mike da Tigah
I make damn fine chicken gumbo and use no stock. I do use bone in chicken, which is simmered in the gumbo until it easily slips from the bones. Fish it out of the pot, debone, and return the meat to the pot.
Gumbo is like a fingerprint....all are slightly different. Your personal preference as to what makes one superior to another is just opinion......there is no one “best”.
Gumbo is like a fingerprint....all are slightly different. Your personal preference as to what makes one superior to another is just opinion......there is no one “best”.
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