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BigPerm30
Chicago Cubs Fan
Member since Aug 2011
16916 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
I could order some off of amazon and it would be here by Friday. The wort will be sitting for a week with no activity. Is that ok?


Loup
McNeese State Fan
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
1524 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

The wort will be sitting for a week with no activity. Is that ok?


How good are your sanitation practices? I'd be nervous but it's pretty cold. It'd likely make a pretty good ale if you have the saf05 on hand.


BigPerm30
Chicago Cubs Fan
Member since Aug 2011
16916 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Keg was cleaned and sitting with star san for a couple weeks. Dumped it out and filled the beer up. I think I’m going to ride with the US05. First time this has happened to me.


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10
BottomlandBrew
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2010
21187 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Mine is in an unfinished garage and my faucets sweat when right after I pour, but for the most part they're good as long as I'm not running a lot of beer through there.

I don't open up the fridge much, so moisture in the fridge isn't an issue for me.


puffulufogous
USA Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
6140 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
So a guy an hour and a half away has a fridge kegerator for sale for $275. It has two perlick 630s, a five gal co2 tank, two stainless shanks, a taprite single body two gauge with a y, and ten ft of 3/16 liquid lines per tap. It's set up for sanke kegs but it seems like it would be a pretty easy swap for ball lock qds. Good deal or just okay? I could leave it as is with my inkbird or retrofit the freezer I just bought for it.


Loup
McNeese State Fan
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
1524 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

So a guy an hour and a half away has a fridge kegerator for sale for $275. It has two perlick 630s, a five gal co2 tank, two stainless shanks, a taprite single body two gauge with a y, and ten ft of 3/16 liquid lines per tap. It's set up for sanke kegs but it seems like it would be a pretty easy swap for ball lock qds. Good deal or just okay? I could leave it as is with my inkbird or retrofit the freezer I just bought for it.


that sounds like a damn good deal. It's super easy to swap over to ball locks.


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BigPerm30
Chicago Cubs Fan
Member since Aug 2011
16916 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
The two perlick is worth $100 and that’s not counting the stainless shanks.

I raised the temp to 69 degrees and made a starter out of some Kveik I had laying around. I went to pitch the starter this morning and sure enough the Saflager 70/34 was finally taking off after 6 days. I guess it didn’t like the lower temps to start off.


puffulufogous
USA Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
6140 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Well I estimate the perlicks are about 75, the co2 tank somewhere between 60-80, shanks 80, regulator 80, drip trays 30, plus the fridge and lines. I would have to buy a couple kegs and qds plus pick the damn thing up. Its going to be tough to convince my wife that I need to pull the trigger when I just bought a freezer for this purpose


BigPerm30
Chicago Cubs Fan
Member since Aug 2011
16916 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

wife


Pics?


quote:

Its going to be tough to convince my wife


I think you know the answer



I purchased 4 of these for mine instead of the perlicks. I've had them almost a year and they are doing just fine. If you are looking to save money, that may be an option.
LINK

Also, Austin Homebrew supply has brand new kegs for $75. I bought six of them and have had no complaints.


puffulufogous
USA Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
6140 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Well maybe I need to frame it like, look honey I'm getting a great deal on this kegerator, we get a new freezer, and I don't have to build out the keezer.


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10
rds dc
Colorado Fan
Member since Jun 2008
16044 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Finally got around to brewing yesterday. I upgraded my brew kettle and that put me in a holding pattern while I waited on it to arrive. I hit about 85% efficiency and ended up with about 7 gallons of wort. Open fermentation is going strong with Wyeast 3724 and supposedly, if temps are kept high, it will tear through this pretty fast. I plan to split this batch into 4 gallons that I'll dry hop and bottle pretty soon and then the other 3 gallons will get put on some fruit and I'll toss in some of my favorite dregs.



BigDropper
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2009
4527 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
I finally have some feedback on adding coffee to beer. About a week or so ago I was listening to a Milk Street Radio podcast & one of the guests was flavor chemist Dr. Arielle Johnson who was discussing the science of taste & smell.

Near the end of her interview, she mentions that taste molecules (sweet, sour, salty, umami, & bitter) are mostly water soluble & aroma molecules (fruity, spicy, citrus, herbal) are more soluble in fat or alcohol. She goes on to say that if you wanted to add coffee flavors to food, a water extraction would produce bitterness as a result of its solubility but, if oil or alcohol were used, the result would not include that bitterness.

So brewed coffee (traditional or cold) would possess more bitterness qualities than say a coffee tincture or oil infusion. (I wouldn't think using fat would lend itself to the beer brewing process).

This made me think about the methods I've read that advise to add coffee after fermentation is complete. Since beer is an aqueous solution with alcohol present, then both compounds (the water or the alcohol) would extract their respective molecules.

Therefore, adding whole coffee beans post-fermentation appears to be a more favorable method for getting the flavor of coffee into beer. The alcohol present will extract the aroma molecules and the flavor molecules would be extracted by the water. This would result in a combination of coffee flavor & aroma with bitterness.

I think I'm going to brew my porter again, do a split batch to conduct an experiment using this knowledge.

Here's the link & timestamp if anyone cares to listen.

Episode 418 June 12, 2020 @27:44
This post was edited on 6/26 at 12:30 am


puffulufogous
USA Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
6140 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Interesting points. While it is likely true that alcohol will pick up more aroma and water will pick up more bitterness, I would argue that bitterness is an inherent part of what makes coffee taste like coffee. Also, I would encourage you to try cold brewed coffee (diluted to normal brewed coffee strength and warmed up of course) side by side with hot brewed coffee. The cold brewed is typically less bitter and much less acidic which I think contributes to the sensation of bitterness. That means that steeping beans in hot water vs cold makes a difference chemically in how the coffee tastes so it's not just all alcohol and fat versus water.

I support you adding your coffee in whatever form to already fermented wort, but I would encourage you to consider the form of coffee you're adding. For whole bean, you will probably have to add a lot of coffee to get a strong coffee note because extraction from whole beans is pretty low. I'm also not sure I would want to add coarse grinds to my fermenter either as it could give you trouble when racking to bottle or keg. who knows how coffee grinds react to gelatin and cold crashing? The amount of time the wort sits on the beans will play a big part in bitterness as well. Even with cold brew coffee I try not to let it steep for more than a day otherwise the grinds get overextracted.

I'm still sticking with my instinct that adding cold brew concentrate to taste right before bottling is going to be a good middle ground. You can titrate in the concentrate to a desired flavor endpoint and it's concentrated so you're not going to dilute out the beers flavors. Or better yet try them all and report back! Good luck


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BugAC
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
37221 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

Therefore, adding whole coffee beans post-fermentation appears to be a more favorable method for getting the flavor of coffee into beer. The alcohol present will extract the aroma molecules and the flavor molecules would be extracted by the water. This would result in a combination of coffee flavor & aroma with bitterness.


My only question, is why whole beans and not ground beans? Doesn't extraction happen faster and more efficiently when the beans are ground?


CarRamrod
USA Fan
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
51176 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
so i have been using a hop basket in my boil kettle to recuse the amount of crap i have to filter when i transfer.

I am noticing my beers just dont have the hop punch they had when i didnt use a basket. Do you think the basket is reducing the extraction? Im referring to big ipas with a ton of hops in it.


BugAC
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2007
37221 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
quote:

so i have been using a hop basket in my boil kettle to recuse the amount of crap i have to filter when i transfer.

I am noticing my beers just dont have the hop punch they had when i didnt use a basket. Do you think the basket is reducing the extraction? Im referring to big ipas with a ton of hops in it.



I've been using one now for a few brews, as well. i'm sure utilization may be slightly restrained if the basket is in one place. I can't tell for certain because i'm not consistent with how i brew NEIPA's.


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puffulufogous
USA Fan
New Orleans
Member since Feb 2008
6140 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
As far as coffee brewing, yes grinds have a much higher extraction than whole beans. Afaik the factors that contribute to extraction are grind fineness, temperature, time of steeping, and probably to a small degree water chemistry. Basically all the methods of brewing coffee are changing these factors to maximize desired flavor. When most people think coffee, they are thinking of the roasted and somewhat bitter/acidic profile of brewed coffee, but when using the pour over method or different roasting strategies you can bring out fruity and several other notes by not overshadowing them. If I was tasting a coffee Porter or stout I would be expecting a traditional coffee flavor like brewed coffee. That's why I recommended cold brew concentrate. It's the same profile with less dilution and acidity that can be added to your desired effect like other flavor tinctures.


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10
BigDropper
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2009
4527 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Good question Bug. From what I've been reading, coffee is very efficient at giving up its flavor & aroma. Think about how long it takes to make a pot of coffee & how much medium is required to achieve a favorable result.

While adding ground coffee would increase the surface area & increase the extraction efficiency, it is easier & cleaner to add whole beans. Also, purchasing whole beans is usually of better quality & grinding beans just adds another step & extra cleanup to the process. If neither of these factors advise your decision, then you're in the clear.


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BigDropper
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2009
4527 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Very valid points Puff. I agree that coffee flavor should have some bitterness however, it shouldn't be a dominant trait. I have tried cold brew coffee (cbc) and it is definitely much smoother than traditionally brewed coffee. If I were to use liquid coffee, it would definitely be cold brew concentrate.

When considering using cbc, there are a few factors to consider. Are you making the cold brew or buying it? If making it, then one would just have to plan a little ahead, this isn’t too big of a deal just a factor to consider. I’ve seen recipes that suggest three ounces of cold brew per quart of beer. That would calculate to almost one gallon of cbc per 10 gallons of beer (10 gallons = 40 quarts, 3x40=120 ounces, 1 gallon =128 ounces). If purchasing, then there’s added cost associated with the product. It would take some experimentation to figure out the proper ratio because all cbc & concentrate products are not created equally. Also, what do I do with all the leftover coffee concentrate? What is the shelf-life/ quality-life expectancy if buying cbc or concentrate? I would imagine cbc & concentrate freeze very well but who knows for how long and at what cost?

As far as ground vs. whole bean, coffee flavor extraction is very efficient. Think about how long it takes to make a pot of coffee. Consider the water to bean ratio, as well as contact time. In a drip system the contact time is approximately 5 minutes, if you are making your coffee using a French Press, the contact time is 2-4 minutes, and espresso has an especially brief brew time the coffee is in contact with the water for only 20-30 seconds. Most cold brew recipes use a 12-24 hour range. In addition, roasting the beans increases their porosity, making them less dense and much more soluble. This allows water to diffuse freely through the coffee. The main reason for grinding beans for coffee is to increase the extraction rate while reducing the contact time. Heat has an adverse effect on coffee and, if allowed to, will extract very undesirable flavors. Think back to the different brewing methods mentioned above. Each has its own unique grind. Expresso being the finest grind with the least contact time and cold brew being the coarsest with the longest contact time.

Most methods of adding dry coffee to beer that I have researched have different ranges of time for adding whole, course crushed, and ground coffee. While grinding coffee does have a positive correlation between increased surface area and extraction efficiency, it is easier and cleaner to add whole beans. I have read recipes involving each version of bean which ranges from adding 2-6 ounces of the beans to five gallons of beer for 12-72 hours. The conventional thought would be that, as the beans are processed, the quantity needed and duration of contact would decrease. One would surmise that whole beans require slightly more mass and a longer soak time where the course crushed & ground beans require less quantity and less soak time. Surprisingly, my research did not reflect this theory. As you can imagine, the quantities and times for each recipe were as varied as the opinions of the brewers. One of the main factors lending consideration to the form of bean used was racking and clean up. Ground beans posing the most challenge with crushed being slightly easier and whole bean being the easiest. Some brewers employed a hop sock, Randal, or other filtration apparatus similar to dry hopping to keep coffee grounds out of the finished product.

One final factor to consider is color and opacity. Of course, this only applies to lighter colored beers. Last summer I had a 3 Daughters Coffee Blonde Ale. One of the unique characteristics of the beer is that it was very light (2°Lovibond), was crystal clear, but had a very robust coffee flavor. Adding brown liquid to the beer would affect these characteristics. I would also postulate that ground coffee would impart color and increase opacity to the beer. Not a problem in a stout or porter, but maybe a negative attribute in a brown or blonde ale.

Overall, I think it all comes down to personal preference and philosophical point of view, as with most things!!! The amount, grind, brand, soak time etc. are all variables that will have to be experimented with and adjusted.
This post was edited on 6/26 at 2:38 pm


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BottomlandBrew
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2010
21187 posts

re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II
Feel good to be back in the saddle?

I'm brewing a saison Dupont clone tonight. All pils with a hochkurz mash at 147 and 162. EKG and saaz hops. Blend of 3724 and 565 for the yeast. 120 minute boil.


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