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Started By
Message
re: Mississippi River Flooding - Links & Pictures in 1st Post
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:24 am to RummelTiger
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:24 am to RummelTiger
0
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:24 am to cheeriopiss
quote:
Are there any civil engineers or people with actual knowledge of this type of stuff that can talk about possible affects to infrastructure if the morganza spillway is opened?
I would guess that the spillway/basin is wide enough that velocities through there would not be high, and infrastructure (I-10 and US 190 bridges) would be fine. Farmland in Point Coupee around Morganza would be fricked though.
Edited for correct parish.
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 9:31 am
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:25 am to LSUJuice
quote:
Farmland in Avoyelles would be fricked though.
the spillway doesnt really go through avoyelles
the concern for avoyelles is if OR and the RR back up, from what i've learned in this thread
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:28 am to LSUJuice
quote:
possible affects to infrastructure
Probably none. All that shite was built with the assumption that the spillway would have to be opened. There might be minor infastructure damage to local streets and buildings, but roadways through the spillway should not be damaged.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:29 am to Croacka
You're right, it's Point Coupee.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:31 am to LSUJuice
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:39 am to cheeriopiss
quote:
Scottie P, you work out of Parker Coliseum?
No over on Sherwood Forest. Parker crew is with the wetlands center, I am with the Water science center.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:40 am to ScottieP
Tides are definately an influence for the Amerada Pass guage but we did see a rise several years ago when the River was high too.
The wax lake at Calumet is pretty crazy now. You can actually see water higher in spots and lower from whirlpools. Tremendous amount of current but Im guessing the boils and whirlpools are from the topography of the bottom.
I know DK socially, but went out in the field with several who work on CRMS monitoring
The wax lake at Calumet is pretty crazy now. You can actually see water higher in spots and lower from whirlpools. Tremendous amount of current but Im guessing the boils and whirlpools are from the topography of the bottom.
I know DK socially, but went out in the field with several who work on CRMS monitoring
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 9:42 am
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:42 am to ScottieP
Oh ok, I know a bunch of the guys over at Parker, and I used to have an office in there when I worked for LSU.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:42 am to prostyleoffensetime
quote:
Levees in NOLA are able to hold up to 20 feet... The river is only going to 17 feet in NOLA. IF the forecast stays the same, NOLA will be safe.
From what I understood, its not only about height of levee to the water. Flow rates come into account. Maybe I misunderstood it, as I'm not sure why it matters much, but from ScottieP a day or two ago:
quote:
Yes the levees are only so high but they are designed according to the amount of flow in the rivers. As I said earlier the levees in New Orleans are designed to carry 1.25 million cfs. If you have 1.5 million cfs in Baton Rouge it does not matter what is happening downstream that 1.5 million cfs is going to flow to New Orleans.
So it would seem like if BR is F'ed then NOLA would also be f'ed. Maybe we need a response from Scottie to clear this up
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 9:45 am
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:46 am to Mudminnow
quote:
I know DK socially, but went out in the field with several who work on CRMS monitoring
Well I have been in charge of the water science centers monthly hyrdo runs for CRMS for about 2 year now, so we may have met.
Before CRMS I basically lived on the Wax, Lower Atch R and GIWW in Morgan City.
quote:
The wax lake at Calumet is pretty crazy now.
The water in wax hauls arse. Right now it is at 6 ft, in 2008 it peaked at 8.5ft. We could see levels a foot or 2 higher if/when they open Morganza.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:46 am to ScottieP
Any expected effects on the Red? Will water start backing up? Will there be changes to what's normally done with the locks and dams?
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:49 am to RummelTiger
Thank you for link. Good info.
What about Angola? Will the prison be evacuated?
What about Angola? Will the prison be evacuated?
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:52 am to tetu
quote:
From what I understood, its not only about height of levee to the water. Flow rates come into account.
O, I'm sure it's a lot more that goes into it than what I said. I just have a very basic understanding of flood stages, and he wanted me to put the graph in a nutshell for him so I did what I could.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:57 am to AlxTgr
quote:They're going to blow the levee just north of Alex. Unstrap your boat from the trailor and be prepared to make a quick get away.
Any expected effects on the Red? Will water start backing up? Will there be changes to what's normally done with the locks and dams?
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:57 am to tetu
quote:
its not only about height of levee to the water. Flow rates come into account.
They are related. Higher water levels equals higher flow rates if the velocity is constant. I would think flow rates are used because they are a more accurate measure of whats going on. 40 feet of stagnant water is bad, but it won't erode anything like 35 foot of water hauling arse.
ETA: That was an educated guess BTW. I'm no expert.
This post was edited on 5/3/11 at 9:59 am
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:57 am to Geauxtiga
quote:yes
What about Angola? Will the prison be evacuated?
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:58 am to tetu
quote:
From what I understood, its not only about height of levee to the water. Flow rates come into account. Maybe I misunderstood it, as I'm not sure why it matters much, but from ScottieP a day or two ago:
It is hard to explain/understand but to put it as simply as I can a water level of 45 feet in 1927 and a water level of 45 feet today have different flow rates.
The levees keep the river channelized. The river naturally wants to overflow its banks and spreadout. Since it can not spread out it rises up. Thus by making decision according to flow rate instead of level keeps things uniform over the years. 1.5 million cfs is 1.5 million cfs no matter what the level.
Look a few pages back some one linked an interview with the author of Rising Tide(book about 1927 flood) he explains it better.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:58 am to prostyleoffensetime
I understand, just throwing some stuff out there from around pg 10, which some people jumping on may not have read.
It was partially in response to RummelTigers post:
Not hatin rum, i really liked that link. I hadn't gotten to see that yet.
It was partially in response to RummelTigers post:
quote:
Angola - fricked
BR - possibly fricked
Morgan City - possibly fricked
NO - not likely to be fricked
Not hatin rum, i really liked that link. I hadn't gotten to see that yet.
Posted on 5/3/11 at 9:59 am to prostyleoffensetime
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WELL FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY FEET THE RIVER LEVEES IN UPTOWN NOLA ARE ABLE TO SAFELY HOLD BACK. WHEN YOU SAY 22FEET, PERSONALLY I HAVE NO PERSPECTIVE... CAN YOU PLEASE OFFER SOME PERSPECTIVE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOLA should be fine no matter how the upriver forecast changes. The Bonnet Carre is upstream of NO and it will be opened. That's why the forecast is at 17.0' for N.O. (Carrollton Gauge, I think) If the flood forecast predicts flow rate of over 1,250,000 cfs (which apparently translates to a crest of about 17') the USACE opens the Bonnet Carre.
I believe the levees in N.O. are said to provide protection to 20' and are a couple of feet higher than that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WELL FIRST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY FEET THE RIVER LEVEES IN UPTOWN NOLA ARE ABLE TO SAFELY HOLD BACK. WHEN YOU SAY 22FEET, PERSONALLY I HAVE NO PERSPECTIVE... CAN YOU PLEASE OFFER SOME PERSPECTIVE?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Levees in NOLA are able to hold up to 20 feet... The river is only going to 17 feet in NOLA. IF the forecast stays the same, NOLA will be safe.
NOLA should be fine no matter how the upriver forecast changes. The Bonnet Carre is upstream of NO and it will be opened. That's why the forecast is at 17.0' for N.O. (Carrollton Gauge, I think) If the flood forecast predicts flow rate of over 1,250,000 cfs (which apparently translates to a crest of about 17') the USACE opens the Bonnet Carre.
I believe the levees in N.O. are said to provide protection to 20' and are a couple of feet higher than that.
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