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Let's suppose that the worst case occurs...
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:28 pm
...and that the COE loses control of the Mississippi River and it changes course down the Atchafalya, which it has been wanting to do for some time.
From some of the discussions, it seems a given that the US 190 and I-10 elevateds would be history (either underwater or wiped out). Also, Morgan City would be a goner and BR and NO would be "high and dry."
The question: Would the COE try to retame the MR and send it back past BR & NO, or would they essentially "reverse" Old River so that 30% of the flow would continue past BR and NO (and then dredge the shite out of the old channel for navigation)?
From some of the discussions, it seems a given that the US 190 and I-10 elevateds would be history (either underwater or wiped out). Also, Morgan City would be a goner and BR and NO would be "high and dry."
The question: Would the COE try to retame the MR and send it back past BR & NO, or would they essentially "reverse" Old River so that 30% of the flow would continue past BR and NO (and then dredge the shite out of the old channel for navigation)?
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:34 pm to udtiger
very good question...i too will grab my

Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:34 pm to udtiger
they would do whatever was necessary to regain control over the MR and send it back down its current path. no question
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:37 pm to manwich
quote:
they would do whatever was necessary to regain control over the MR and send it back down its current path. no question
i agree, i just think it would be impossible
im looking at the river from my office in BR right now, and there is no fricking way they could divert that thing once its already going.
its a monster
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:38 pm to manwich
quote:
they would do whatever was necessary to regain control over the MR and send it back down its current path. no question
This........
The river needs to continue down through the SWP.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:39 pm to udtiger
On the up side it would be a shorter trip up the MS for shipping and I guess it is possible they could keep it dredged from the north side down to NOLA. Plus i would think Houma would see a boom in ship support related services as well as building of our marshes and barrier islands. Though those positives are a very big stretch 

Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:40 pm to udtiger
To answer your question:
They would try this first:
Then if that is impossible they would do this:
From some articles I've read: if it did change course, a 50ft channel depth would be easy to maintain in the current Miss R. path because there wouldn't be much sediment coming this way anymore. So shipping could continue, however the channel would be narrower and there may be some brackish water messing up alot of the plants in the area.
They would try this first:
quote:
Would the COE try to retame the MR and send it back past BR & NO,
Then if that is impossible they would do this:
quote:
30% of the flow would continue past BR and NO and then dredge the shite out of the old channel for navigation?
From some articles I've read: if it did change course, a 50ft channel depth would be easy to maintain in the current Miss R. path because there wouldn't be much sediment coming this way anymore. So shipping could continue, however the channel would be narrower and there may be some brackish water messing up alot of the plants in the area.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:41 pm to LSUDad
quote:
quote:
they would do whatever was necessary to regain control over the MR and send it back down its current path. no question
This........
The river needs to continue down through the SWP.
Okay...why?
It's rhetorical, I know why, but the fact is that in regards to the long-term health of Louisiana's coastal wetlands, it would be "better" for the MR to change course. As it stands, the sediment load from the MR is essentially funnelled off the continental shelf into the GOM, and does nothing to maintain/build the coast.
Yes, navagation would be a damned nightmare for some time and there would be serious dislocations, but there are some potential "benefits" to this happening as well.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:43 pm to tetu
quote:
however the channel would be narrower and there may be some brackish water messing up alot of the plants in the area.
But you could catch trout and redfish in the river at Audubon Park.

Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:43 pm to Ash Williams
quote:
im looking at the river from my office in BR right now, and there is no fricking way they could divert that thing once its already going.
its a monster
you do realize in a few months the water will be low again
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:44 pm to glassman
quote:
But you could catch trout and redfish in the river at Audubon Park.
I know, the silver lining.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:46 pm to udtiger
quote:worse case would be a levee breach at BR and the river flowing south through Ascension parish towards New Orleans
Let's suppose that the worst case occurs...
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:50 pm to udtiger
I've often wondered if there are other reasons it is best to keep it on its current path. As in say the US had been settled a few centuries later and the Mississippi river was already flowing through MC, would that be the best case scenario?
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:50 pm to udtiger
O know this may be a dumb question..
But if the river were to divert permanently, how would it affect the wetlands?
But if the river were to divert permanently, how would it affect the wetlands?
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:53 pm to aVatiger
quote:
But if the river were to divert permanently, how would it affect the wetlands?
As the river slows down (channel flattens out in terms of "grade" and widens), it cannot carry the same sediment load and it will deposit sediment. This builds up the delta (i.e., wetlands). The primary reason for coastal erosion and wetlands loss is that this source of sediment has been cut off by the levee system. Cutting through the marshes by oil companies and other industries accelerated the prosess by allowing saltwater intrusion.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:56 pm to udtiger
quote:
As it stands, the sediment load from the MR is essentially funnelled off the continental shelf into the GOM, and does nothing to maintain/build the coast.
You realize that once it changes course they would build levees along the new path, sending the sediment load off the shelf once again. So we would have a few years of rebuilding the marshes and then business as usuall.
So you can list jobs under potential benefits.
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:58 pm to udtiger
Thanks, that's what I was thinking
so we are talking about a good bit sediment deposit I would imagine?
so we are talking about a good bit sediment deposit I would imagine?
Posted on 5/11/11 at 3:59 pm to tetu
quote:
You realize that once it changes course they would build levees along the new path, sending the sediment load off the shelf once again
True, but it would build a new delta first and it would have a lot of shallow water to work with before it got to the edge:
Posted on 5/11/11 at 4:03 pm to tetu
I know that this is long, but I copied this from here:
If the events of 1973, as described above happened, how would life on the lower Mississippi River and Louisiana coast change? Would the present-day Mississippi River suddenly dry up? Would a fisherman sitting by the river see it go "glub, glub, glub," with fish flopping around in the mud? Would ship traffic stop on the river? Would there be any impact at all? The following description of possible life after the change is excerpted from Kazmann and Johnson (1980:10-16).
In the aftermath of the huge floods that would cause the main flow of the river to jump to the Atchafalaya River, aside from the cost, anxiety, tragedy, and aggravation of dealing with massive amounts of water being in the wrong place, there would be lingering issues that would change the way of life on the lower Mississippi. Instead of 70% flow down the lower Mississippi and 30% flow down the Atchafalaya, the percentages would probably reverse. The Atchafalaya would be a rushing, raging river, even during the fall for a period of time until it scoured the channel and filled in the lower reaches so that the flow would diminish. Morgan City would have to be relocated, as would other communities and many businesses, possibly including the massive infrastructure of the offshore oil and gas industry. Fisheries would be altered measurably all across the delta. Oyster reefs would be immediately destroyed, and would take several years to reestablish and become productive. It would probably take two decades to adapt to the new environment around present day Morgan City. Additionally, pipelines, bridges, and the like that cross the Atchafalaya would be destroyed or rendered unsafe. The ruptured natural gas pipelines would place stress on fuel supplies for energy companies, but they would quickly change to more costly fuel sources and have little or no interruption of service. Imagine the traffic jams when and if bridges on I-10, U.S. 90, and U.S. 190 collapse (what about the railroads)? All trans-state traffic would have to be rerouted to I-20 via I-55 through Jackson, Mississippi, adding up to 615 miles to the trip (not to mention time delays from the traffic jams). The protective levees of the Atchafalaya Basin would have to be upgraded to handle the new pressure from spring flows. And, oh my gosh, think of the negative impact on the crawfish supply!
The lower Mississippi would still have a copious amount of water, but it would be slack compared to today. Shipping could continue to be an important industry, but it would be interrupted for a time. The slack water would allow (cause) the thalweg to fill in and stop deep-draft shipping. However, after intensive dredging efforts it may be found that a 50 ft channel can be easily maintained because of the tremendous decrease in sediment. New Orleans, possibly Baton Rouge, and all other cities and towns along the lower Mississippi would no longer be able to get their drinking water from the river. It would become too salty, since the lower fresh water flow would not offset the tidal movement of the Gulf. Can you imagine the cost of piping or trucking enough drinking (and flushing, etc.) water from north of Lake Pontchartrain to supply the needs of Greater New Orleans? Can you imagine Greater New Orleans without water for drinking and sanitation? Even when the water was just barely increasing in salinity, there would be severe damage to water heaters, fire sprinklers, fire truck pumping systems, and more. The quality of our coffee! As mentioned above, the fisheries (especially those associated with the fresh water river) would suddenly change. And what about the massive petrochemical industry corridor? Aside from the impact on shipping, which they could weather over time, industry could no longer use fresh river water for thermo-electric cooling. The saltier water would corrode all the pipes and related instrumentation. Of course, industry would change to salt-tolerant materials, but that would be costly and time consuming. Also, the sugarcane industry would have problems without sufficient fresh water.
All of this adjustment, and we have not delved into the intensity of impact on people's lives during the crisis and the adjustment period. All normal routines would stop. Businesses would be closed, as would schools, normal government, etc., etc. Virtually the entire population would spend months and months just coping - just putting their and others' lives back together. Imagine the emotional strain to the population - people losing a lifetime of accomplishment. This would be a tragedy of monumental proportions. It would interrupt life much like World War II.
One can also imagine the impact on the nation. Massive use of Federal dollars to protect and restore Louisiana's infrastructure. Loss of natural gas (there would be brown-outs throughout the eastern seaboard). Commerce would be interrupted by restriction of travel and Louisiana's inability to focus on supplying items traditionally demanded from her natural resources by the nation. Prices of all Louisiana products (from the natural resources [fisheries, oil, gas] to industrial products [polyvinylchloride, polyethelene, etc.]) would soar. The interruption of the pogie fisheries would be very negative for such food industries as chicken, catfish, and hogs (see the last section of the notes). New Orleans is one of the most important ports in the nation, and it would suddenly cease to function; all shipping and related industries on the Mississippi River would stop. International trade would be further imbalanced. The massive fertilizer business would shut down and the agriculture industry would falter.
And what about the economy of south Louisiana? For a period of time, all the revenue would dry up and tourism would collapse. Even Mardi Gras would possibly come to a halt!!! Only the mosquitoes would do well! And probably the cockroaches and Formosan termites.
Long term, we would adapt. Once the drinking and sanitation water issues were resolved, tourism would return. Coastal erosion could be reversed on the west side of the present-day Mississippi River. Shrimp, oysters, and other fisheries would probably flourish after a number of years due to new marshes being produced and nutrient rich sediments being redistributed.
This would obviously place a lot of stress on at least two generations of residents. We would survive, but it would be a new Louisiana and Mississippi River delta
If the events of 1973, as described above happened, how would life on the lower Mississippi River and Louisiana coast change? Would the present-day Mississippi River suddenly dry up? Would a fisherman sitting by the river see it go "glub, glub, glub," with fish flopping around in the mud? Would ship traffic stop on the river? Would there be any impact at all? The following description of possible life after the change is excerpted from Kazmann and Johnson (1980:10-16).
In the aftermath of the huge floods that would cause the main flow of the river to jump to the Atchafalaya River, aside from the cost, anxiety, tragedy, and aggravation of dealing with massive amounts of water being in the wrong place, there would be lingering issues that would change the way of life on the lower Mississippi. Instead of 70% flow down the lower Mississippi and 30% flow down the Atchafalaya, the percentages would probably reverse. The Atchafalaya would be a rushing, raging river, even during the fall for a period of time until it scoured the channel and filled in the lower reaches so that the flow would diminish. Morgan City would have to be relocated, as would other communities and many businesses, possibly including the massive infrastructure of the offshore oil and gas industry. Fisheries would be altered measurably all across the delta. Oyster reefs would be immediately destroyed, and would take several years to reestablish and become productive. It would probably take two decades to adapt to the new environment around present day Morgan City. Additionally, pipelines, bridges, and the like that cross the Atchafalaya would be destroyed or rendered unsafe. The ruptured natural gas pipelines would place stress on fuel supplies for energy companies, but they would quickly change to more costly fuel sources and have little or no interruption of service. Imagine the traffic jams when and if bridges on I-10, U.S. 90, and U.S. 190 collapse (what about the railroads)? All trans-state traffic would have to be rerouted to I-20 via I-55 through Jackson, Mississippi, adding up to 615 miles to the trip (not to mention time delays from the traffic jams). The protective levees of the Atchafalaya Basin would have to be upgraded to handle the new pressure from spring flows. And, oh my gosh, think of the negative impact on the crawfish supply!
The lower Mississippi would still have a copious amount of water, but it would be slack compared to today. Shipping could continue to be an important industry, but it would be interrupted for a time. The slack water would allow (cause) the thalweg to fill in and stop deep-draft shipping. However, after intensive dredging efforts it may be found that a 50 ft channel can be easily maintained because of the tremendous decrease in sediment. New Orleans, possibly Baton Rouge, and all other cities and towns along the lower Mississippi would no longer be able to get their drinking water from the river. It would become too salty, since the lower fresh water flow would not offset the tidal movement of the Gulf. Can you imagine the cost of piping or trucking enough drinking (and flushing, etc.) water from north of Lake Pontchartrain to supply the needs of Greater New Orleans? Can you imagine Greater New Orleans without water for drinking and sanitation? Even when the water was just barely increasing in salinity, there would be severe damage to water heaters, fire sprinklers, fire truck pumping systems, and more. The quality of our coffee! As mentioned above, the fisheries (especially those associated with the fresh water river) would suddenly change. And what about the massive petrochemical industry corridor? Aside from the impact on shipping, which they could weather over time, industry could no longer use fresh river water for thermo-electric cooling. The saltier water would corrode all the pipes and related instrumentation. Of course, industry would change to salt-tolerant materials, but that would be costly and time consuming. Also, the sugarcane industry would have problems without sufficient fresh water.
All of this adjustment, and we have not delved into the intensity of impact on people's lives during the crisis and the adjustment period. All normal routines would stop. Businesses would be closed, as would schools, normal government, etc., etc. Virtually the entire population would spend months and months just coping - just putting their and others' lives back together. Imagine the emotional strain to the population - people losing a lifetime of accomplishment. This would be a tragedy of monumental proportions. It would interrupt life much like World War II.
One can also imagine the impact on the nation. Massive use of Federal dollars to protect and restore Louisiana's infrastructure. Loss of natural gas (there would be brown-outs throughout the eastern seaboard). Commerce would be interrupted by restriction of travel and Louisiana's inability to focus on supplying items traditionally demanded from her natural resources by the nation. Prices of all Louisiana products (from the natural resources [fisheries, oil, gas] to industrial products [polyvinylchloride, polyethelene, etc.]) would soar. The interruption of the pogie fisheries would be very negative for such food industries as chicken, catfish, and hogs (see the last section of the notes). New Orleans is one of the most important ports in the nation, and it would suddenly cease to function; all shipping and related industries on the Mississippi River would stop. International trade would be further imbalanced. The massive fertilizer business would shut down and the agriculture industry would falter.
And what about the economy of south Louisiana? For a period of time, all the revenue would dry up and tourism would collapse. Even Mardi Gras would possibly come to a halt!!! Only the mosquitoes would do well! And probably the cockroaches and Formosan termites.
Long term, we would adapt. Once the drinking and sanitation water issues were resolved, tourism would return. Coastal erosion could be reversed on the west side of the present-day Mississippi River. Shrimp, oysters, and other fisheries would probably flourish after a number of years due to new marshes being produced and nutrient rich sediments being redistributed.
This would obviously place a lot of stress on at least two generations of residents. We would survive, but it would be a new Louisiana and Mississippi River delta
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