re: I have a quiet envy of religious people

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The burden of multiple degrees and the life of an *intellectual."

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Yikes

I agree to some extent, during trying times or deaths of those we love it would be nice in some ways to still believe there was a divine plan for it all.

The intellectual freedom that comes with a loss of religious belief far outweighs any negatives, though. Moreover, there’s no need to ever fret that those we love who didn’t believe are in a hell somewhere which is easily the most psychologically abusive concept ever conceived by humans.

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It takes more faith to believe that chemicals magically fell together and created this Universe

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It’s not “magic”

And belief isn’t a choice

I grew up religious, but actually feel much happier and free now knowing there’s no god. I’m open to believing that there’s something bigger out there, but I think it’s comforting knowing that no one on earth truly knows.

I know most on this board we’re raised Christian, and therefore believe. I understand there’s a sense of fear in choosing to not believe anymore, but it’s ultimately freeing.

I'm an agnostic and it's true for me as well.

To those saying that you can have it too, you have to understand, some people's brains are so logical that we can't make that leap in believing something without direct and obvious evidence. Then there's the whole history of being lied to about things we know were not true now by lots of religions. The claims that were made over the years that proved to be false or impossible. I know that's not fair to just general deist that never made any specific claims but just believe in a higher power. To me, that's a more defensible claim and for me personally, a possibility. I think for people like me, it's harder when people claim specific saviors as if there aren't thousands of other religions out there that could also be correct. It seems like the height of arrogance to claim that your God or savior is the right God or savior and everybody else's throughout all of history is wrong.

It truly is a matter of faith.

Eta: y'all should feel lucky you're capable of such leaps. The solace that it brings must be extremely comforting.

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The burden of multiple degrees and the life of an *intellectual."

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Boy, let me assure you, there are THOUSANDS of Christians who are much, much, much smarter than you will ever live to be.....

Your REAL problem is your EGO, not your intellect, you fking moron....

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It’s not “magic”

And belief isn’t a choice

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God doesn't have to be magic either. If Arthur C. Clarke can recognize that things we don't understand appear to be magic then so can you.

I've struggled most of my life with the concept of God as well. Some depictions of him as a man in the clouds rewarding and punishing people doesn't sit well with me though.

I still struggle to this day with what or who God is. So I can't really offer you anything to change your mind other than my own struggle with belief and logic.

But I will say this. If it comes down to picking sides, I stand with good Christians in this country. The ones who believe God loves everyone and wants the best for them. In this regard, we both believe in the same thing.

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Things can't really be moral or immoral beyond the level of pure individual preference without a transcendent moral authority. A

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Now see, this is completely untrue in my honest opinion. I see it happen a lot with religious folks. They think there can be no morals without a god. That's just not true. Neither my wife nor I are religious and we are extremely moral people. You may ask, where do you derive your morality from? It can be best summed up in the simple words of the Golden Rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto. Not because God tells you to or even because you're hoping for some reward in reciprocity but because instead, it makes YOU feel good about YOU.

It's empathy. Empathy is something that is taught in childhood and passed down from parent to child with or without the presence of religion. I know because I received it without religion. Empathy makes you feel bad for hurting others. Humans are social creatures and always have been. It's ingrained in us biologically to feel bad for hurting others because a tribe cant survive if everybody's out for themselves and stepping on everyone else along the way. Everyone ends up isolated in the wild. We are pack animals. We cant survive very well alone.

Teach your kids empathy and that will be their source of their morality. This can either be through the lens of religion or not. It doesn't matter. As long as they're taught that making other people feel bad will make you feel worse, it's mission accomplished.

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It takes more faith to believe that chemicals magically fell together and created this Universe and everything in it than it does in God

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You think an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being, who himself must be questioned of origin, is more likely than random chance on a very large planet where the opportunities for such things coming together are uncountable?

You can walk this back as far as you want and the deists will always try and end the journey at 'God'. But then I would ask, what created God? What created the creator of God? Etc. Can there be an endpoint? Logic dictates that there can't.

I think whatever we find out, if we ever find out, it's cyclical. What set it all in motion, who knows? The questions are really too big to answer in one person's lifetime. I guess that's where faith comes in. Since we'll never know, we should just believe in something. The capacity for that belief is what us agnostics are jealous of. I mean that in a sincere and complementary way.

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But I will say this. If it comes down to picking sides, I stand with good Christians in this country. The ones who believe God loves everyone and wants the best for them. In this regard, we both believe in the same thing.

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Here, here!

If it makes communists scowl and it's good enough for the Founders, then it's good enough for me