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re: Why do we have such shortage of doctors in the US?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:38 pm to Port Royal
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:38 pm to Port Royal
quote:
You mean more Americans, and not Asians and Arabs?
What do you mean by this?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:41 pm to Northwestern tiger
Do we really have a shortage?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:41 pm to Northwestern tiger
Ask the AMA, they started years ago in creating a limited number of physicians....kinda like an unofficial labor union that ensures their financial status.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:51 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:
Why can’t we admit more students to Med schools?
The bottleneck isn’t medical school. It’s residency funding from CMS...and the AMA has nothing to do with it. It’s an irrelevant organization that cashes checks for maintaining the Diagnosis Code Databases and most physicians don’t belong to it. It’s nothing like a labor union at all.
This post was edited on 3/29/20 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 3/29/20 at 5:59 pm to Northwestern tiger
The career arc of physicians has changed.
In 1960, the class graduated and worked 40 years as doctors.
This won’t be popular.
I myself do not plan to work after age 61.
Doctors married to other doctors many times opt out early, or at least one of them does.
Med school classes is USA need to be bigger, but it looks like the powers that be want NPs and PAs to see most patients with non-surgical problems.
It’s a different world than even when I graduated in 1990. Medicine is being deprofessionalized with quickness. Administrators and computer data entry take a huge amount of a physicians time. I would not recommend medicine as a career without explaining some of the downsides. Caveat emptor applies to medical school.
I have enjoyed some of being a doctor, but like anything else, there are rocks in the rucksack.
In 1960, the class graduated and worked 40 years as doctors.
This won’t be popular.
I myself do not plan to work after age 61.
Doctors married to other doctors many times opt out early, or at least one of them does.
Med school classes is USA need to be bigger, but it looks like the powers that be want NPs and PAs to see most patients with non-surgical problems.
It’s a different world than even when I graduated in 1990. Medicine is being deprofessionalized with quickness. Administrators and computer data entry take a huge amount of a physicians time. I would not recommend medicine as a career without explaining some of the downsides. Caveat emptor applies to medical school.
I have enjoyed some of being a doctor, but like anything else, there are rocks in the rucksack.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:02 pm to Northwestern tiger
AMA suppresses the amount by limiting medical school spots. Why do you think so many ( a lot of them bright) people end up in Caribbean medical schools?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:03 pm to Boatshoes
Then you would have no problem with increasing the number of slots in the medical schools? Or maybe adopting an apprentice model after 2 years of college?
The AMA would oppose it...and the state medical boards membership would howl.....more physicians would not be good for the medical business overall.
The AMA would oppose it...and the state medical boards membership would howl.....more physicians would not be good for the medical business overall.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:04 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:
What do we have such shortage of doctors in the US?
Lots of doctors quit or retired when Obamacare came around. Others determined it wasn't worth it.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:08 pm to Port Royal
You realize that those foreigners are mostly
U.S. citizens, don’t you?
U.S. citizens, don’t you?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:18 pm to UcobiaA
quote:
Why aren't you a doctor, if you aren't? There is a limited pool of people that have an interest in medicine to begin with. Of those with an interest there is only a certain percentage with the intelligence, aptitude, and willingness to invest the time needed to become a doctor.
It’s been many years, so the current situation could be different, but when my wife was on a med school admissions committee after tossing out those not qualified for numerous reasons they would still be left with 6-8well qualified students for each opening in the 1st year class to pick from.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:21 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:
Yes, We Have No Physicians
And we’re selling them to Uncle Sam.
By JODIE T. ALLEN
FEB 23, 1997
So generous are the government subsidies for resident training (as much as $100,000 a year), that hospitals have reaped nice profits by using these journeymen doctors to do things that less-skilled personnel could do as well. And since the longer a resident trains, the larger the total subsidy, the system has also encouraged doctors to extend their educations and become specialists rather than lower-paid general practitioners. Now with managed care and government regulators cracking down on in-hospital care, residents are facing a shortage of patients to practice upon.
....
Cutting back on resident subsidies seems the obvious solution. But teaching hospitals, the undisputed crown jewels of the medical system, are already under great financial strain. (And in New York, they are guarded by two senior U.S. senators and a politically potent union.) As in the case of agriculture–in which a complex edifice of subsidies has also succeeded in developing an industry whose products are unmatched in quality, quantity, and variety–reform is rarely straightforward.
So HCFA has settled on a convoluted solution: continuing the subsidies for the residents that are trained, but paying the hospitals additional amounts not to train as many. This, the agency calculates, will save it some $300 million over the six years of the “demonstration.” “Brilliant and bizarre” is how experts characterized the scheme in the New York Times.
Where will it all end? HCFA’s Vladeck has already entertained extending the program, noting that if jealous congressmen from other jurisdictions “think this is a good deal, they have the power to make it more available.” Really? How widely? Surely, most of us can take credit for not having trained a legion of doctors?
And why limit payments to the medical sector? Many will feel that the case for subsidizing the nonproduction of doctors is weak when law schools are still cranking out lawyers by the caseload. Others may feel that the money would be better spent in paying the defense industry not to produce the latest round of high-tech weaponry, thus saving us the expense of generating still more lethal weapons when the current crop inevitably falls into the hands of our enemies. Why not pay poor people not to be poor? Come to think of it, that’s what the welfare system was meant to do.
Which may bring us to the moral of our story: When you start paying for nonproduction you are almost sure to reap a bumper crop.
LINK
quote:
The Effects of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 on Graduate Medical Education
March 2000
...
The provisions that appear to have raised the most concern are the per-hospital cap on the number of residents and the reduction in the IME adjustment factor. The cap on the number of residents discourages facilities from adding or expanding residency programs. It is an across-the-board cap that limits the total numbers of residents, but in the 3 process, can hamper expansion of primary care specialties when hospitals do not make corresponding cuts in specialists. Although beneficial from the standpoint of curbing an oversupply of residents being trained and funded by Medicare, the limitation on primary care residents may conflict with the general goals of the Council on Graduate Medical Education (COGME) to promote the education and training of a mix of physicians consistent with current and future health care needs including in rural areas. Nevertheless, if the provisions lead to a slowdown in the growth rate of the physician workforce, while maintaining or increasing the number of primary care physicians, then the legislation is in line with COGME recommendations.
LINK
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:22 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:
why do we have like 50% of residents who are foreign graduates that come here and practice in the US?
50% of residents at any given time aren’t FMGs. Why are you making up numbers?
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:27 pm to CelticDog
quote:
in holland they have twice the mds per capita as usa.
dutch mds make half what us doctors make
No they don’t
quote:
the number of residents is controlled by congress
Not directly. Funding for residency positions is controlled by CMS/congress. The number of positions is not. There are plenty of residency spots which are not completely funded with GME money
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:29 pm to Toddy
quote:
AMA suppresses the amount by limiting medical school spots.
AMA has no control over how many seats are available at US allopathic or Osteopathic medical schools.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:42 pm to Toddy
quote:Here we go again
AMA suppresses the amount by limiting medical school spots. Why do you think so many ( a lot of them bright) people end up in Caribbean medical schools?
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/icons/casty.gif)
Your beef is with CMS, not the AMA. As much as I dislike the AMA, they are on the right side of this.
AMA seeks more GME slots to match future workforce needs
Jun 14, 2018 LINK
Match numbers up, but more slots needed to meet doctor
Mar 25, 2014 LINK
AMA to fund graduate medical education, address physician ...
Jun 12, 2019 LINK
AMA applauds Congress for efforts to expand graduate med education
Mar 5, 2015 LINK
AMA builds on efforts to expand funding for graduate medical education
June 15, 2016 LINK
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:43 pm to Northwestern tiger
Doctors regulate how many people they take into medical school for the purpose of preventing competition. Doctors are smarter than lawyers. There are so many lawyers and that is why there are so many bullshite lawsuits. If we had fewer lawyers they would tell people to duck off when they brought them a stupid case because there would be enough real cases that need to be grouchy before a court. If you train a lot of doctors then they compete and it drives the cost down which is good but it also means doctors will treat anything just to make money.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:55 pm to BamaScoop
quote:
Doctors regulate how many people they take into medical school for the purpose of preventing competition
Every day Doctors have no control over how many students are admitted to medical school. The people who do have power to increase admissions would love to increase the number of available seats. It means more money in their pocket. The only thing you said that is correct is that doctors are smarter than lawyers. Because of this, US medical schools have yet to graduate significantly more doctors than there are residency spots, because then medicine would be a lot like the legal field where you have all these people running around with practically useless degrees since you can’t practice medicine without residency training.
Posted on 3/29/20 at 6:59 pm to BamaScoop
quote:Nope. CMS does.
Doctors regulate how many people they take into medical school
quote:Absolutely!
Doctors are smarter than lawyers
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
Posted on 3/29/20 at 7:04 pm to CelticDog
quote:
they do what ama says.
The AMA is not in any way, shape, or form a regulatory body for US physicians.
But then again, I already know you have never heard of AAMC, LCME, ACGME, and ABMS...
Posted on 3/29/20 at 7:11 pm to Northwestern tiger
quote:Who's bitching? I'm a patient I want high standards!
Not true,
They make the standards harder and harder
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