- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: I’d like to be armed with facts against Bernie.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:28 am to Fun Bunch
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:28 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Help me out. Give me some ammunition.
It depends who you’re arguing with, but in general, facts aren’t going to move the needle. If someone wants to believe that European style healthcare will work, they’ll believe it.
0
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:29 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Furthermore, to suggest that providing undocumented immigrants with insurance would bankrupt the country is misleading. Those immigrants make up a small number of the population — about 11 million, compared with the total national population of approximately 327 million.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:30 am to Fun Bunch
Since nobody is actually answering your question, here is one of many of the issues I disagree with Bernie on.
Fair Banking for all - usury caps of 15% across all financial institutions, all post offices allow basic banking services, end lending discrimination.
As with all regulation, its not the 1st order effects that are the most powerful, its the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects that are the worst.
Usury caps aren't terrible if done at a level that still encourages competition. 15% usury caps are insane. We have data everywhere showing that usury caps tend to actually increase average lending rates and lower access to credit. Mexican pawn shops don't have usury caps while US' do, yet Mexican pawn shop rates on average are lower due to increased competition.
15% lending caps immediately put most deep subprime and subprime lenders out of business. California just did 36% usury can. Larger financial institutions simply won't lend to the stressed parts of society because the credit costs are usually double digit percentages, making the ROE not make sense. So
.. with the intent to "end lending discrimination"... this initiative would effectively strangle access to credit for anybody that doesnt have pristine credit.
I won't spend too much time on the post office portion. That model has already proven to be laughably inefficient and hurtful for any bank that is forced to have that cost structure.
This is the common problem I have with all of Bernie's proposals. When you take the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects into consideration, even though he is campaigning for the 99%, his policies would be the most damaging for the wealth and social mobility of the 99%. Irony at its finest.
Fair Banking for all - usury caps of 15% across all financial institutions, all post offices allow basic banking services, end lending discrimination.
As with all regulation, its not the 1st order effects that are the most powerful, its the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects that are the worst.
Usury caps aren't terrible if done at a level that still encourages competition. 15% usury caps are insane. We have data everywhere showing that usury caps tend to actually increase average lending rates and lower access to credit. Mexican pawn shops don't have usury caps while US' do, yet Mexican pawn shop rates on average are lower due to increased competition.
15% lending caps immediately put most deep subprime and subprime lenders out of business. California just did 36% usury can. Larger financial institutions simply won't lend to the stressed parts of society because the credit costs are usually double digit percentages, making the ROE not make sense. So
.. with the intent to "end lending discrimination"... this initiative would effectively strangle access to credit for anybody that doesnt have pristine credit.
I won't spend too much time on the post office portion. That model has already proven to be laughably inefficient and hurtful for any bank that is forced to have that cost structure.
This is the common problem I have with all of Bernie's proposals. When you take the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th order effects into consideration, even though he is campaigning for the 99%, his policies would be the most damaging for the wealth and social mobility of the 99%. Irony at its finest.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:31 am to Fun Bunch
there are too few M.D. for all.
if errybody could make office visits and congress continues to pander to the ama, we are doomed to lines.
the reason medical for all works in holland is because they have twice the M.D. per capita as usa does.
omg lines!!
i proposed usa to start up federal medical schools in appalachia, rocky mts, other underserved regions, back when obamacare was being debated.
dutch M.D. grads are debt free if they work couple years in clinic.
duke u does that with nurse grads. work two years. one year tuition paid off.
if errybody could make office visits and congress continues to pander to the ama, we are doomed to lines.
the reason medical for all works in holland is because they have twice the M.D. per capita as usa does.
omg lines!!
i proposed usa to start up federal medical schools in appalachia, rocky mts, other underserved regions, back when obamacare was being debated.
dutch M.D. grads are debt free if they work couple years in clinic.
duke u does that with nurse grads. work two years. one year tuition paid off.
This post was edited on 2/23/20 at 11:33 am
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:32 am to Fun Bunch
He is a communist who learned everything he knows from spending time in Solviet Russia
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:32 am to CelticDog
quote:
there are too few M.D. for all.
if errybody could make office visits and congress continues to suck off the ama, we are doomed to lines.
How do you propose getting more doctors when you take away the monetary incentive to become a doctor?
if you think doctors choose to be doctors because they care about your well being. Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:33 am to CelticDog
quote:
the reason medical for all works in holland is because they have twice the M.D. per capita as usa does.
Comparing Holland to the US is retarded and you should feel dumb for posting this.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:34 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Edit: seriously. What specifically is Bernie Sanders proposing and why is it impossible to fund?
quote:
Stop the pharmaceutical industry from ripping off the American people by making sure that no one in America pays over $200 a year for the medicine they need by capping what Americans pay for prescription drugs under Medicare for All.
quote:
Transform our energy system to 100 percent renewable energy and create 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis.
Ensure a just transition for communities and workers, including fossil fuel workers.
Ensure justice for frontline communities, especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly.
Save American families money with investments in weatherization, public transportation, modern infrastructure and high-speed broadband.
Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.
Invest in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands.
End the greed of the fossil fuel industry and hold them accountable.
quote:
End the housing crisis by investing $2.5 trillion to build nearly 10 million permanently affordable housing units.
Protect tenants by implementing a national rent control standard, a “just-cause” requirement for evictions, and ensuring the right to counsel in housing disputes.
Make rent affordable by making Section 8 vouchers available to all eligible families without a waitlist and strengthening the Fair Housing Act.
Combat gentrification, exclusionary zoning, segregation, and speculation.
End homelessness and ensure fair housing for all
Revitalize public housing by investing $70 billion to repair, decarbonize, and build new public housing.
quote:
Expand Social Security benefits for all recipients and protect pensions.
Guarantee home and community based long-term care services.
Protect our most vulnerable seniors by quadrupling funding for the Older Americans Act and expanding other programs seniors rely on.
Expand and train the direct care workforce we need.
quote:
Establish an annual tax on the extreme wealth of the top 0.1 percent of U.S. households.
Only apply to net worth of over $32 million and anyone who has a net worth of less than $32 million, would not see their taxes go up at all under this plan.
Will raise an estimated $4.35 trillion over the next decade and cut the wealth of billionaires in half over 15 years, which would substantially break up the concentration of wealth and power of this small privileged class.
Ensure that the wealthy are not able to evade the tax by implementing strong enforcement policies.
quote:
Cap consumer loans and credit cards rates at 15 percent across all financial institutions and allow states to go even further.
Allow every post office to offer basic and affordable banking services and end lending discrimination.
Every single one of those items would put a huge hurting on our economy, and if even half of them were implemented, would destroy it.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:34 am to Parmen
Hey idiot. frick off if you don’t have anything to contribute. This is intended to be a useful thread. Go elsewhere.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:38 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Every single one of those items would put a huge hurting on our economy, and if even half of them were implemented, would destroy it.
I’d love if you’d give a brief breakdown of each one, why you a oppose it, and the harm they would do.
(I personally understand the vast harm in all of them, just trying to have some helpful discussion and talking points here)
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:39 am to Fun Bunch
Example: Sanders wants the minimum wage to be raised to $15/hr. - libs think he’s the man for this and ok, it would be great for everyone to make more, right? (Sure, if it were economical)
However, he then answers the question of “who will pay for this” by saying “Raising taxes.”
Ok - but raising them on who?
“Anyone who makes over $30,000yr.” (Which he doesn’t say much at all bc it leaves him very open for criticism) Guess who now falls into that category? You guessed it, the McDonalds worker who “thought” they were making $15/hr. Maybe, but you’ll never take that home.
Those min wage workers now making $31,500/yr with their $15/hr - they now fall into the taxable class in Bern’s plan.
Taxed at the new rate of about 52% - they now take home around $7.20/hr. after taxes.
Doesn’t make any fricking sense. He raises taxes to include minimum wage workers to now be taxed half of their money, while adding more money to the economic debt.
But min workers can now say, on paper, that they make $15/hr.
Don’t get me started on healthcare. One may ask “how is it that every other country has govt run health care and we don’t? Seems like other countries are doing it right.”
Valid question, however, other countries don’t have illegals pouring in by the thousands AND they don’t have 100 million people just roaming around being either illegal or unemployed. That’s a lot of people’s healthcare to to pay for by taxing the other 65% of the country to pay for it.
So Bern, you’re raising minimum wage (to include more people to tax) while giving free healthcare (also taking it from 160 million privately held citizens who like their healthcare) to those just roaming, paid for by myself and the McDonalds workers (we are all in the same boat).....
OH and you want more tax money for climate change (tax haven for libs - bc honestly, what are we trying to fix and how much will it cost?) AND you want to forgive ALL student debts - well who the hell is gonna pay for that?!
With Bern, it’ll be you and I, my good sir.
However, he then answers the question of “who will pay for this” by saying “Raising taxes.”
Ok - but raising them on who?
“Anyone who makes over $30,000yr.” (Which he doesn’t say much at all bc it leaves him very open for criticism) Guess who now falls into that category? You guessed it, the McDonalds worker who “thought” they were making $15/hr. Maybe, but you’ll never take that home.
Those min wage workers now making $31,500/yr with their $15/hr - they now fall into the taxable class in Bern’s plan.
Taxed at the new rate of about 52% - they now take home around $7.20/hr. after taxes.
Doesn’t make any fricking sense. He raises taxes to include minimum wage workers to now be taxed half of their money, while adding more money to the economic debt.
But min workers can now say, on paper, that they make $15/hr.
Don’t get me started on healthcare. One may ask “how is it that every other country has govt run health care and we don’t? Seems like other countries are doing it right.”
Valid question, however, other countries don’t have illegals pouring in by the thousands AND they don’t have 100 million people just roaming around being either illegal or unemployed. That’s a lot of people’s healthcare to to pay for by taxing the other 65% of the country to pay for it.
So Bern, you’re raising minimum wage (to include more people to tax) while giving free healthcare (also taking it from 160 million privately held citizens who like their healthcare) to those just roaming, paid for by myself and the McDonalds workers (we are all in the same boat).....
OH and you want more tax money for climate change (tax haven for libs - bc honestly, what are we trying to fix and how much will it cost?) AND you want to forgive ALL student debts - well who the hell is gonna pay for that?!
With Bern, it’ll be you and I, my good sir.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:40 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Cap consumer loans and credit cards rates at 15 percent across all financial institutions and allow states to go even further
So why even pay your bills? If I could screw over half the people I borrow money from and not have to pay more than a 15% interest in loans I have to repay(house, car, ect...) then I would
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:41 am to Fun Bunch
This whole attempt at a "gotcha" would be a lot cuter if the media actually pressed him on his platform but they don't and haven't for several decades. He's not getting his paws on any industry.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:42 am to Fun Bunch
I'd like to be armed with guns & ammunition against Bernie supporters.
They're the fascist Nazis who want anyone who disagrees with them dead.
They're the fascist Nazis who want anyone who disagrees with them dead.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:43 am to SHMILL
I’d like to see comprehensive details from Bern cumguzzlers with plenty of input and output numbers showing exactly how all the free stuff will be funded
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:45 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Protect tenants by implementing a national rent control standard, a “just-cause” requirement for evictions, and ensuring the right to counsel in housing disputes.
So get a lease...dont pay rent EVER...and know that the landlord will have to wait a few months before he can evict you
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:45 am to SHMILL
quote:
Those min wage workers now making $31,500/yr with their $15/hr - they now fall into the taxable class in Bern’s plan.
Taxed at the new rate of about 52% - they now take home around $7.20/hr. after taxes.
Just to be fair, I know this meme is going around thanks to a James Woods tweet, but it’s not accurate.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:46 am to CelticDog
quote:
there are too few M.D. for all. if errybody could make office visits and congress continues to pander to the ama, we are doomed to lines.
the reason medical for all works in holland is because they have twice the M.D. per capita as usa does. omg lines!!
i proposed usa to start up federal medical schools in appalachia, rocky mts, other underserved regions, back when obamacare was being debated.
dutch M.D. grads are debt free if they work couple years in clinic. duke u does that with nurse grads. work two years. one year tuition paid off.
This is an embarrassing post.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:47 am to SHMILL
You nailed it. Raising the minimum wage is such a facade.
Posted on 2/23/20 at 11:47 am to Jcorye1
quote:
End the housing crisis by investing $2.5 trillion to build nearly 10 million permanently affordable housing units. Protect tenants by implementing a national rent control standard, a “just-cause” requirement for evictions, and ensuring the right to counsel in housing disputes. Make rent affordable by making Section 8 vouchers available to all eligible families without a waitlist and strengthening the Fair Housing Act. Combat gentrification, exclusionary zoning, segregation, and speculation. End homelessness and ensure fair housing for all Revitalize public housing by investing $70 billion to repair, decarbonize, and build new public housing.
This one is by far the craziest to me. The legal implications of all of this is staggering.
Page 3 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News