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Started By
Message
Ninth Circus: Murder is not a crime of violence.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:37 am
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:37 am
This is what you get when judges think they are smarter than anyone else in the room. I'll spare you the legal arguments, which are extremely technical (the opinion is embedded in the article if you want to read it), but the gist is that the court found that the elements of murder do not neatly match the elements of a crime of violence, so, we get this absurd ruling. The court admits that less serious offenses (such as burglary, robbery, kidnapping, etc.) are crimes of violence, but, trying to prove they are smarter by half, ultimately conclude that murder just isn't covered.
At least one judge wasn't buying this lunacy. Here's the opening to his dissent:
Yes. You really should rethink your thought process when a fellow judge throws a Zoolander quote at you in an effort to show just how dumb the ruling is.
I really do try to defend courts, even the Ninth, because they get it right most of the time. But then, something like this happens, and all faith is lost.
At least one judge wasn't buying this lunacy. Here's the opening to his dissent:
quote:
MURDER in the second-degree is NOT a crime of violence??? Yet attempted first-degree murder, battery, assault, exhibiting a firearm, criminal threats (even attempted criminal threats8), and mailing threatening communications are crimes of violence. How can this be? “I feel like I am taking crazy pills.”
Yes. You really should rethink your thought process when a fellow judge throws a Zoolander quote at you in an effort to show just how dumb the ruling is.
I really do try to defend courts, even the Ninth, because they get it right most of the time. But then, something like this happens, and all faith is lost.
This post was edited on 8/21/19 at 11:38 am
15
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:39 am to FalseProphet
dawgfan24348 and aggiehank will be here shortly to tell us how this ruling is correct
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:39 am to FalseProphet
Disgraceful.
Attempted murder is but actual murder isn't?
Attempted murder is but actual murder isn't?
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:40 am to FalseProphet
And folks wonder why the great unwashed would vote for someone like Trump....
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:41 am to FalseProphet
This would be inexplicable if the panel wasn't composed of trained lawyers.
But, because it is, it is easily explainable.
fricking lawyers.
But, because it is, it is easily explainable.
fricking lawyers.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:42 am to FalseProphet
Wouldnt non-violent murder (aka unintentional) be manslaughter?
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:45 am to FalseProphet
A Florida delivery man was arrested for the death of an elderly woman Monday after he attacked her and set her on fire, authorities say.
The Boca Raton Police Department confirmed in a press release that Jorge Luis Dupre Lachazo, 21, has been charged with first degree murder, arson and armed burglary.
He admitted to police that he bashed the victim on the side of the head with a wooden mallet before dousing her in a liquid chemical found in the garage, according to the affidavit, but he denied knowing what had ignited the fire.
The 75-year-old unidentified victim was transported to Delray Medical Center where she died from her injuries Tuesday.
Lachazo and another delivery man were installing appliances in the victim’s home when the attack happened.
Yup, this definitely is not violence at all.
The Boca Raton Police Department confirmed in a press release that Jorge Luis Dupre Lachazo, 21, has been charged with first degree murder, arson and armed burglary.
He admitted to police that he bashed the victim on the side of the head with a wooden mallet before dousing her in a liquid chemical found in the garage, according to the affidavit, but he denied knowing what had ignited the fire.
The 75-year-old unidentified victim was transported to Delray Medical Center where she died from her injuries Tuesday.
Lachazo and another delivery man were installing appliances in the victim’s home when the attack happened.
Yup, this definitely is not violence at all.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:50 am to FalseProphet
I agree with the ruling. Murder isn't always violent. I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:56 am to upgrayedd
quote:I have no idea whether this ruling is — or is not — correct, and I do not care enough to conduct a legal analysis of the case.
dawgfan24348 and aggiehank will be here shortly to tell us how this ruling is correct
Is important to remember, however, that the court’s job is to read the relevant statute and apply it. It is not the court’s job to determine whether that statute makes sense.
As soon as judges assume the job of determining whether they think a statute makes sense, we have legislation from the bench. I know that I do not like seeing a court do that.
If the problem is a poorly-written statute, the complaint lies with the legislature… not the courts. Based only upon this single news article, this would seem to be the case here.
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
This post was edited on 8/21/19 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 8/21/19 at 11:58 am to FalseProphet
How is a murder not violent? 
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:01 pm to AggieHank86
There he is
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:05 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You can attack the messenger, or you can read the message. Your choice.
There he is
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:08 pm to AggieHank86
I don’t know how you got that this was a statutory problem from that article. The interpretive gymnastics the majority went through to reach this result would have gotten them a gold medical in the trying too hard olympics.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:09 pm to FalseProphet
So is the 9th also going to invalidate all hate-crime statutes?
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:09 pm to AggieHank86
That's some insane/liberal reasoning right there.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:11 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I have no idea whether this ruling is — or is not — correct, and I do not care enough to conduct a legal analysis of the case.
Is important to remember, however, that the court’s job is to read the relevant statute and apply it. It is not the court’s job to determine whether that statute makes sense.
As soon as judges assume the job of determining whether they think a statute makes sense, we have legislation from the bench. I know that I do not like seeing a court do that.
If the problem is a poorly-written statute, the complaint lies with the legislature… not the courts. Based only upon this single news article, this would seem to be the case here.
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
This is a sober and well reasoned argument
downvote
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:11 pm to Bard
quote:
How is a murder not violent?
"It's not violent, violent."
W. Goldberg
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:14 pm to FalseProphet
Nelson - a 91-year old senior status judge, appointed directly to the Ninth Circus from her spot as dean of UCLA Law School by Jimmy fricking Carter.
Clifton penned this thing and was a recess appointment by W.
Smith also an appointment by W. (FIVE times before being confirmed by the Senate), also senior status.
Clifton penned this thing and was a recess appointment by W.
Smith also an appointment by W. (FIVE times before being confirmed by the Senate), also senior status.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:14 pm to FalseProphet
quote:Again
I don’t know how you got that this was a statutory problem from that article. The interpretive gymnastics the majority went through to reach this result would have gotten them a gold medical in the trying too hard olympics.
quote:
Again based ONLY upon the article, it seems that the “crime of violence” enhancement requires affirmative intent. Affirmative intent IS an element of the “attempted” offense, but is NOT an element of the 2nd degree homicide offense.
Posted on 8/21/19 at 12:15 pm to Dale51
It’s an act of love, just ask Alisa Milano.
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