- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message

Fair take on Davenport from Breer
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:47 am
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:47 am
Most notable to me was that the Saints had medical red flags on 3 of the next 4 edge rushers
-
Saints pay big-time price, believe they’ve got a big-time player. I understand why some people are scratching their heads over the Saints selling out for a pass-rusher. After all, to move up 13 spots to get Texas-San Antonio phenom Marcus Davenport, they gave up a 2019 first-round pick to get one, which something none of the three teams moving up for quarterbacks did. There’s risk involved, to be sure. But what if I told you that, when he was discussed over the last few weeks, DeMarcus Ware’s name was invoked? And what if that was backed by weight of two men, coach Sean Payton and assistant GM Jeff Ireland, in prominent positions who were there when Ware was drafted by Dallas in 2005? Then would you be okay with it?
Where some teams saw a different dude in Davenport (he’s into poetry) and wondered how that temperament would befit an NFL pass-rusher, the Saints saw someone whose makeup wasn’t far off from Ware’s, complete with the same ability to flip the switch on game day. In fact, New Orleans marked his motor and competitiveness among his strengths. There are others too, of course—Davenport’s a freak athlete (4.58 in the 40) who’s still growing at 6'6" and 263 pounds, and he hit the trifecta when it came to smarts (good in school, good studying football, good processing in-game action). But having seen a guy similar to him make it playing that position, like Payton and Ireland had, was an important element.
Another key factor was how it hard it is to find legit pass-rushers, especially this year. You almost never find them in free agency, because teams that have them wind up keeping them, and it’s tough to land one outside the top 20 picks because that premium is placed on them. And this year, the Saints had medical flags on three of the four edge players ranked behind Chubb and Davenport, and that’s without mentioning guys with other problems (like LSU’s Arden Key). So they took the confidence in their evaluation, buoyed by that Ware example, and tied it to the scarcity that existed at the position. Add to it a desire to help out All-Pro Cam Jordan with a bookend, and also maximize what’s left of Drew Brees’ championship window … and no, their aggression really wasn’t that crazy.
LINK
-
Saints pay big-time price, believe they’ve got a big-time player. I understand why some people are scratching their heads over the Saints selling out for a pass-rusher. After all, to move up 13 spots to get Texas-San Antonio phenom Marcus Davenport, they gave up a 2019 first-round pick to get one, which something none of the three teams moving up for quarterbacks did. There’s risk involved, to be sure. But what if I told you that, when he was discussed over the last few weeks, DeMarcus Ware’s name was invoked? And what if that was backed by weight of two men, coach Sean Payton and assistant GM Jeff Ireland, in prominent positions who were there when Ware was drafted by Dallas in 2005? Then would you be okay with it?
Where some teams saw a different dude in Davenport (he’s into poetry) and wondered how that temperament would befit an NFL pass-rusher, the Saints saw someone whose makeup wasn’t far off from Ware’s, complete with the same ability to flip the switch on game day. In fact, New Orleans marked his motor and competitiveness among his strengths. There are others too, of course—Davenport’s a freak athlete (4.58 in the 40) who’s still growing at 6'6" and 263 pounds, and he hit the trifecta when it came to smarts (good in school, good studying football, good processing in-game action). But having seen a guy similar to him make it playing that position, like Payton and Ireland had, was an important element.
Another key factor was how it hard it is to find legit pass-rushers, especially this year. You almost never find them in free agency, because teams that have them wind up keeping them, and it’s tough to land one outside the top 20 picks because that premium is placed on them. And this year, the Saints had medical flags on three of the four edge players ranked behind Chubb and Davenport, and that’s without mentioning guys with other problems (like LSU’s Arden Key). So they took the confidence in their evaluation, buoyed by that Ware example, and tied it to the scarcity that existed at the position. Add to it a desire to help out All-Pro Cam Jordan with a bookend, and also maximize what’s left of Drew Brees’ championship window … and no, their aggression really wasn’t that crazy.
LINK
This post was edited on 5/3/18 at 10:38 am
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:51 am to blueslover
quote:
Another key factor was how it hard it is to find legit pass-rushers, especially this year. You almost never find them in free agency, because teams that have them wind up keeping them, and it’s tough to land one outside the top 20 picks because that premium is placed on them
This. All of this. We may have two of them now.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:54 am to blueslover
It was a steep price. The Saints liked Davenport enough to make the move. That's the story.
The Saints weren't forced due to circumstance. It wasn't a "no-brainer". And, Davenport wasn't universally viewed by other teams in the same way the Saints viewed him. The front office absolutely went out on a limb to make this happen.
The Saints weren't forced due to circumstance. It wasn't a "no-brainer". And, Davenport wasn't universally viewed by other teams in the same way the Saints viewed him. The front office absolutely went out on a limb to make this happen.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:54 am to blueslover
And the 32nd pick is practically the 2nd round. It's not really that high if you think about it.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 9:56 am to moneyg
quote:
The front office absolutely went out on a limb to make this happen.
After the last two years of drafts I think they have earned the benefit of the doubt.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:04 am to Mike Honcho
quote:
After the last two years of drafts I think they have earned the benefit of the doubt.
That's true, and I didn't suggest otherwise.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:25 am to moneyg
quote:
It was a steep price
But was it really?
For over a decade fans and media alike have been screaming that the Saints desperately needed an impact pass-rusher. Now they get one and everyone (not you specifically) thinks the price is "too high"?
As King stated, those guys RARELY are available in free agency, and if they are, it's a HUGE expense to sign one. The best place to find one is in the draft. But those guys generally don't last until the 27th pick. And iff the Saints are as good as we/they think they will be next season, then they wouldn't have been able to grab one in next year's draft either because they would have been picking at the back end of the first round.
The Saints saw a chance to get what they think will be a great pass-rusher and stick him opposite arguably the best all around DE in football. For a franchise whose defense has been the weak link for more than a decade, what more can you ask for? Now all of a sudden the team who has long desperately needed to upgrade their defense is being criticized for.....taking a big step towards upgrading their defense?!!!!
We can all only make the best decision with the information we have on hand at the time. No one can predict the future. So IMO, BASED UPON THE INFORMATION AT HAND, the price the Saints paid frankly isn't that steep. You gave up a 5th round pick--prospects who are rarely thought be impact players and who many times don't even make the roster, along with what you fully believe will be a pick in 29-32 range next year. It's not as if the Saints parted with what they thought will be a top 5 pick next season. They paid next year's first rounder in order to select a type of prospect that would not have been available to them at 27 this year NOR at their anticipated draft slot next year.
If Davenport is a bust, the of course the trade wouldn't be worth it. But you don't get to make these decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:27 am to Alt26
I thinks its 100% fair to say it was a steep price.
Equally fair to say it may well be damn worth it.
Equally fair to say it may well be damn worth it.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:28 am to blueslover
quote:
Add to it a desire to help out All-Pro Cam Jordan with a bookend, and also maximize what’s left of Drew Brees’ championship window
Greatly helps our secondary as well.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:29 am to blueslover
I was definitely concerned with how much we gave up to draft him, but he is HIGH reward guy......and his floor is high enough that CSP/Ireland believe that he is worth the risk. As was stated earlier, the way that the staff has improved their draft process has definitely earned them the benefit of the doubt.
The beauty of hitting on the last two drafts the way the front office has.....is that it afforded them the opportunity to gamble some.
Now you are adding a MUCH NEEDED pass rusher to an already vastly improved defense. This should elevate the secondary (which is also improved by adding Robinson to the Nickle). Add to that, Anzalone is progressing very well in his recovery. We were all able to see flashes of his talent last year, so hopefully the shoulder problem is fixed.
Adding Davenport will also (hopefully) make it difficult for teams to double on Cam. If all goes well (fingers crossed), we could be looking at a Top 10 defense to go along with another Top 5 offense.
This could be a fun season boys
The beauty of hitting on the last two drafts the way the front office has.....is that it afforded them the opportunity to gamble some.
Now you are adding a MUCH NEEDED pass rusher to an already vastly improved defense. This should elevate the secondary (which is also improved by adding Robinson to the Nickle). Add to that, Anzalone is progressing very well in his recovery. We were all able to see flashes of his talent last year, so hopefully the shoulder problem is fixed.
Adding Davenport will also (hopefully) make it difficult for teams to double on Cam. If all goes well (fingers crossed), we could be looking at a Top 10 defense to go along with another Top 5 offense.
This could be a fun season boys
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:32 am to infantry1026
Saints gave up a lot and swung big. Sure. But that doesn't mean it won't be deserved.
Green Bay may very well be kicking themselves in the arse 2 yrs from now when they had Davenport in their laps for the taking.
Green Bay may very well be kicking themselves in the arse 2 yrs from now when they had Davenport in their laps for the taking.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:39 am to infantry1026
quote:
Adding Davenport will also (hopefully) make it difficult for teams to double on Cam. If all goes well (fingers crossed), we could be looking at a Top 10 defense to go along with another Top 5 offense.
For years I would always worry anytime we were on defense and would sometimes just hope the opponent would just score fast so that Drew could get back on the field and maybe give us a chance to win a shootout. Last year was the first time I can ever remember looking forward to seeing the defense play. I think people forget how dominate they were through the middle part of the season.
They were the worst defense for the first two weeks and were the best for the next 8. Injuries caught up to use down the back half but we were still something special.
This addition should make it so that our Dline is the strength of the team for years to come.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:42 am to Chad504boy
Julio Jones is my comparison
The Falcons selected Jones with the sixth overall pick, acquired from the Cleveland Browns on Thursday night for a package of five draft picks, including Atlanta's No. 27 overall selection in the first round this year and the team's first-round pick in 2012.
The Browns also acquired the Falcons' second- and fourth-round picks this year and fourth-round selections in 2012.
I thought they were way off paying that much for a WR. He ended up worth it and more.
The Falcons selected Jones with the sixth overall pick, acquired from the Cleveland Browns on Thursday night for a package of five draft picks, including Atlanta's No. 27 overall selection in the first round this year and the team's first-round pick in 2012.
The Browns also acquired the Falcons' second- and fourth-round picks this year and fourth-round selections in 2012.
I thought they were way off paying that much for a WR. He ended up worth it and more.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:43 am to blueslover
quote:
Another key factor was how it hard it is to find legit pass-rushers, especially this year. You almost never find them in free agency, because teams that have them wind up keeping them, and it’s tough to land one outside the top 20 picks because that premium is placed on them. And this year, the Saints had medical flags on three of the four edge players ranked behind Chubb and Davenport, and that’s without mentioning guys with other problems (like LSU’s Arden Key). So they took the confidence in their evaluation, buoyed by that Ware example, and tied it to the scarcity that existed at the position. Add to it a desire to help out All-Pro Cam Jordan with a bookend, and also maximize what’s left of Drew Brees’ championship window … and no, their aggression really wasn’t that crazy.

Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:44 am to goatmilker
Yeah kind of like how we laughed at Atanta for selling the farm away (two #1's, a #2, & two 4's) a for Julio Jones...a wide receiver!!!
Not a starting QB or edge rusher or lockdown corner or cornerstone OT....but a WR. Steep price to move from 27 to 6, but it paid off for them.
I think Davenport is the right fit, at the right time, on the right team. Soon, it will be universally accepted it was the right price.
Not a starting QB or edge rusher or lockdown corner or cornerstone OT....but a WR. Steep price to move from 27 to 6, but it paid off for them.
I think Davenport is the right fit, at the right time, on the right team. Soon, it will be universally accepted it was the right price.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 10:56 am to Alt26
quote:
But was it really?
Yes
quote:
As King stated, those guys RARELY are available in free agency, and if they are, it's a HUGE expense to sign one. The best place to find one is in the draft. But those guys generally don't last until the 27th pick. And iff the Saints are as good as we/they think they will be next season, then they wouldn't have been able to grab one in next year's draft either because they would have been picking at the back end of the first round.
None of that means it wasn't a steep price. If Davenport is a perennial pro bowler, the price they paid at the time was still steep. Hindsight doesn't change that.
Look, the Saints made an aggressive move. They went out on a limb. Obviously, the payoff could make that a great decision.
But, you people who need to redefine everything to suggest we didn't pay a steep price are ridiculous.
We gave up a #1 for a guy who wasn't universally viewed as being worth it. That's the reality. Franchises are built and success is made on making decisions that are more astute than the rest of the league. Maybe this is one of them.
But, make no mistake. We went out on a limb.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:12 am to moneyg
quote:
None of that means it wasn't a steep price. If Davenport is a perennial pro bowler, the price they paid at the time was still steep. Hindsight doesn't change that.
Look, the Saints made an aggressive move. They went out on a limb. Obviously, the payoff could make that a great decision.
But, you people who need to redefine everything to suggest we didn't pay a steep price are ridiculous.
exactly
i hope he shows he's worth the price, but it's still a steep price no matter what happens from this point foward
even if he is Demarcus Ware in year 1, only hindsight bias will allow somebody to reconstruct this trade to be non-risky or inexpensive
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:27 am to Mike Honcho
quote:
For years I would always worry anytime we were on defense and would sometimes just hope the opponent would just score fast so that Drew could get back on the field and maybe give us a chance to win a shootout. Last year was the first time I can ever remember looking forward to seeing the defense play. I think people forget how dominate they were through the middle part of the season. They were the worst defense for the first two weeks and were the best for the next 8. Injuries caught up to use down the back half but we were still something special.
Yep you nailed it
As a fan, last year was a ton on fun, no matter how it ended
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:36 am to SlowFlowPro
Semantics. It really all about value, not price.
Sure the sticker price will always technically be steep, but if someone buys a DaVinci's Mona Lisa, it's all about the "priceless" value, not the technical $650 million dollar price tag.
Sure the sticker price will always technically be steep, but if someone buys a DaVinci's Mona Lisa, it's all about the "priceless" value, not the technical $650 million dollar price tag.
Posted on 5/3/18 at 11:38 am to Mike Honcho
I didn't really care who we took after moving up as long as it wasn't Lamar Jackson
That being said, I absolutely love the pick. Game is won in the trenches. He will elevate our already excelling secondary
That being said, I absolutely love the pick. Game is won in the trenches. He will elevate our already excelling secondary
This post was edited on 5/3/18 at 11:43 am
Back to top

10










