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re: The argument for social assistance programs as a net benefit for a productive society
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Let me do add, props for having a well reasoned, research post that tried to elevate the discussion.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:20 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
quote:
It's Social Security and Medicare at the federal level and pensions and retirement healthcare at the state level that need a goddamn cleaver run through them. Principled conservatives would do themselves good if they zeroed on those at the expense of almost everything else because those are what will eventually bankrupt the country if not fixed.
So the programs people paid into with a promised future benefit need cutting with a cleaver, but not those that go to purely free riders?
On balance, most people are getting out more than what they paid in, and that will be the case for at least another generation.
The actuarials just flat out don't line up. Most people receiving it today paid in at a time when there were ten to twelve people paying into the system for every person receiving benefits. Today it's more like three to one. That math doesn't lie, and it absolutely has to be fixed in some form.
Social Security and Medicare, by themselves, are damn near half the federal budget.
Raise the age at which you can receive benefits or fricking something. It has to happen or the country will go bankrupt. The problem is even more acute at the state level with pensions.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:24 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
that's a broad statement but i'll say that i have no problem with the Trump's 2 regs out for every new reg in.
Well I kinda do. It all depends on which Regs
Instead of giving housing, food, transportation, utilities, EITC, etc... put people in a program where they get cash benefits run through one agency and given a 3-4 year window, all tied to education/job training and not losing benefits if they work during that period?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:26 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I would be interested to look at who all qualifies for multiple programs, what those cut lines are, and then possibly lower those cut rates for people who qualify for more than one when appropriate
You'd get like 3 Democrat votes from legislators........ANYWHERE
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:28 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
You'd get like 3 Democrat votes from legislators........ANYWHERE
okay. I'm not a Democrat legislator
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Instead of giving housing, food, transportation, utilities, EITC, etc... put people in a program where they get cash benefits run through one agency and given a 3-4 year window, all tied to education/job training and not losing benefits if they work during that period?
consolidation is something i would have no problem with
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Instead of giving housing, food, transportation, utilities, EITC, etc... put people in a program where they get cash benefits run through one agency and given a 3-4 year window, all tied to education/job training and not losing benefits if they work during that period
When you try to tie strings to a liberal program they act like you just threw your swastika on
Many moons ago Republicans tried to increase the GPA required to maintain a Pell Grant above 2.0
You would have thought they had proposed killing C students in the streets
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:29 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
okay. I'm not a Democrat legislator
Well they're not going to listen to me. You're the one voting for them
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:30 pm to Draconian Sanctions
my initial takeaway from the conclusions of the studies in OP is this: if these programs are so effective, why is usage increasing? if the outcomes of those on public assistance is greater than this putative class of persons without (i didn't read the studies to see how they created this group), then we should have had a decrease since the massive expansion since the 60s/70s
now that graph is inflated, per the article, by medicare and SS, so i'm looking for data on medicaid and other means-tested programs
here is a CBO report showring the increase over time, but it's totals and not rates
this WAPO "fact check" says it's increased at higher rates than pop growth
now that graph is inflated, per the article, by medicare and SS, so i'm looking for data on medicaid and other means-tested programs
here is a CBO report showring the increase over time, but it's totals and not rates
this WAPO "fact check" says it's increased at higher rates than pop growth
quote:
There has certainly been an increase, at a rate that exceeds population growth.
quote:
These numbers indicate at most a four times increase in participation in means-tested programs since they became fully established. But the U.S. population has grown about 50 percent since 1972, so that has to be taken into account.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:32 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Doesnt exist
You have to work 20 hours a week to get food stamps in La.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:32 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Are you saying environmental factors in childhood play no role at all?
Obviously, they do. If a person grows up poor, in a bad neighborhood with high crime rates, with a single parent, and with uneducated parents, they will almost certainly grow up poor. These factors have a stronger correlation than race does. Their odds of improving their economic outlook increase for each of those four factors that you change.
What are we doing about reducing these factors? Not much, that I can see. In fact, our welfare system provides housing in housing projects for many, and these neighborhoods have high crime rates. It also discourages marriage. For many, public assistance becomes permanent, so it ensures that a child spends their entire childhood in poverty.
We need incentives to work, incentives to get married, and incentives to get an education.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:33 pm to Esquire
quote:
You have to work 20 hours a week to get food stamps in La.
If you're working 20 hours a week at min wage you're not paying income tax.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:33 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Are you saying environmental factors in childhood play no role at all?
i think we all agree that parenting plays a major role, which is why children born to single parent households do so much worse than those born to both parents (aka, "nuclear family privilege").
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:33 pm to narddogg81
quote:
frick off
OMG...I just spit my drink out..... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
I read the OP's (attempted) well thought out long dissertation that sounded like a pollyanna school paper written by an idealistic 9th grader....
Then I scrolled down to "frick off" Have another upvote,
cuz I laughed my arse off.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:34 pm to Draconian Sanctions
To an extent, I don't disagree.
These payments are a form of insurance.
If we don't make them, a mob of society's dregs will burn down the neighborhoods of the productive people.
These payments are a form of insurance.
If we don't make them, a mob of society's dregs will burn down the neighborhoods of the productive people.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i think we all agree that parenting plays a major role, which is why children born to single parent households do so much worse than those born to both parents (aka, "nuclear family privilege"
Some stats used to support the idea of are really just stats that measure the result of having shitty parents.
Liberals can't stand it when you talk about those kinds of things. Bring stuff like that up and they will inevitably start a sentence with something to the effect of "are you saying all poor parents are shitty"?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if these programs are so effective, why is usage increasing?
wage stagnation which is a result of corporatist policies
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
wage stagnation
Myth
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:38 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
If we don't make them, a mob of society's dregs will burn down the neighborhoods of the productive people.
Kinda sad, in many countries welfare is considered a safety net. The USA has such a large percentage of dysfunctional s that it's basically protection money, and it's still not working.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 4:39 pm to ShortyRob
usually they go back to defending the shitty parents because they had shitty parents (and a shitty environment)
it's a gordian knot that they admit exists but have no real ideas on how to directly address. all they can do is speak in generalities and meta concepts like privilege or income inequality
the most frustrating discussion area is school. the progressive belief system would doom 90% of a school's population to give 3-5% of the population a chance. i mean it's "mean" b/c we are talking about kids and basically discarding that 3-5%, but damn think of all the children whose future we destroy by catering our policy to protect them. also the success rate is probably close to 0
it's a gordian knot that they admit exists but have no real ideas on how to directly address. all they can do is speak in generalities and meta concepts like privilege or income inequality
the most frustrating discussion area is school. the progressive belief system would doom 90% of a school's population to give 3-5% of the population a chance. i mean it's "mean" b/c we are talking about kids and basically discarding that 3-5%, but damn think of all the children whose future we destroy by catering our policy to protect them. also the success rate is probably close to 0
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