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The argument for social assistance programs as a net benefit for a productive society

Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:19 pm
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:19 pm
Most conservatives dislike any time of "entitlement" program, or at the very least want them to be first on the chopping block when it comes to spending cuts. Typically the accusation is that liberals are too emotional in their policy analysis and only support these programs for feel good reasons. This is incorrect.

While I do believe there is a argument to be made for these programs on the basis of it just being a responsible thing to do, i also believe it behooves our society to nurture as healthy and well adjusted a populace as reasonably possible, as those people will then grow up to be more productive members of society, which will benefit America as a whole. I believe the stats support this.

-There’s considerable evidence that good old-fashioned welfare works well. Research on the Mothers' pension programs from the early 20th century showed that kids whose mothers received a very modest welfare check ended up with early-adult incomes that were 20 percent higher than those of mothers who didn’t receive checks, and were also 35 percent less likely to be underweight as adults and received additional schooling.

-More modern welfare programs work too. A January 2015 paper by David Brown, Amanda Kowalski, and Ithai Lurie studied Medicaid expansions in the 1980's and 90's and concluded that kids who benefited from expansion ended up paying more in cumulative taxes and receiving less in EITC disbursements than those who did not.

-Speaking of the EITC, in 2013, a paper by Michelle Maxfield found that kids whose parents benefited from increased EITC generosity had higher math scores, were more likely to graduate high school, and were more likely to complete one or more years of college.

-Indeed, it is in some ways likely that standard methods are undercounting the benefits of social assistance programs. Chloe East, Sarah Miller, Marianne Page, and Laura Wherry found in September 2017 that the grandchildren of low-income pregnant women who benefited from Medicaid expansion in the 1980s were less likely to suffer from low birth weight (which itself seems to correlate with low IQ, among other health problems).

As a society, we can, and should, take decisive action to reduce environmental contamination and improve the material living conditions of poor children and their parents. The evidence that doing this will have broad secondary benefits for cognitive development, and by proxy make them more productive adults, is overwhelming.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
19711 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:20 pm to
frick off
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

frick off


Now that's the level headed and well reasoned analysis I come to the poli board for
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140565 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:22 pm to
Well said.

No consevative is against a hand up. Everyone should be against the welfare state unless you are counting on them for votes.
Posted by demtigers73
Coastal Club
Member since Aug 2014
5529 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to
tl;dr and downvote
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
101474 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

-Indeed, it is in some ways likely that standard methods are undercounting the benefits of social assistance programs. Chloe East, Sarah Miller, Marianne Page, and Laura Wherry found in September 2017 that the grandchildren of low-income pregnant women who benefited from Medicaid expansion in the 1980s were less likely to suffer from low birth weight (which itself seems to correlate with low IQ, among other health problems).


Surely, then, there must be some evidence of population wide IQ increases amongst the "low-income" because of this. Anything showing that has occurred?
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
11642 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

Most conservatives dislike welfare programs


Until you bring up Social Security
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:25 pm to
The argument for a larger welfare state seems to be that there are large swaths of people who are dysfuntional and can't improve their lot in life. It's that same problem which will doom a large welfare system in the USA.

Just get rid of welfare as we have it and offer a work incentivized cash benefit.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69313 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to
This is a ridiculous stretch and a “correlation is not causation” example.

You could just as likely point to the bad decision making, lifestyle habits, and social pathologies that affect our underclass today and say that the welfare state subsidizes that behavior

Considering our poor have a lower labor participation rate than anyone else, I’d say your central thesis about productivity is wrong

Posted by Bourre
Da Parish
Member since Nov 2012
20280 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to
Get a job, you fricking leach
Posted by TaderSalad
mudbug territory
Member since Jul 2014
24656 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

Until you bring up Social Security



Except Social Security is paid into over the lifetime of a career. Slightly different than your average sit at the house and collect without ever contributing. Please tell me you can see this difference.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

should be against the welfare state


you know i put welfare as kind of a catch all but it does have a connotation that isn't really applicable here, so i've edited my OP to reflect.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

Until you bring up Social Security


Most people realize it's doomed, and a perfect example of how US style welfare is always going to fail.
Posted by joeyb147
Member since Jun 2009
16019 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

I believe the stats support this.

the welfare state that has been getting larger and larger in the US for the past 50 years is a complete failure

27% of americans lived in poverty in 1967
29% of americans lived in poverty in 2012


$21.5 trillion spent and those are the results
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

This is a ridiculous stretch and a “correlation is not causation” example.




You can find anything on the net to support any position no matter how obsurd.
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

Considering our poor have a lower labor participation rate than anyone else


and why do they have a lower participation rate? Are you saying environmental factors in childhood play no role at all?
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
260875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:32 pm to
quote:

and why do they have a lower participation rate?


Welfare programs that disincentivize work
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37539 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to
nothing worse than seeing someone on welfare with 4-5 kids. use a fricking condom for christs sake
Posted by Esquire
Chiraq
Member since Apr 2014
11642 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

Please tell me you can see this difference.


It's welfare for the financially illiterate.

quote:

Slightly different than your average sit at the house and collect without ever contributing


If you have tax-paying job and also collect food stamps, does that mean it isn't welfare?
Posted by Draconian Sanctions
Markey's bar
Member since Oct 2008
84875 posts
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

Welfare programs that disincentivize work


this is overstated as the safety net already has substantial incentives built in to incentive work

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