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re: The argument for social assistance programs as a net benefit for a productive society
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:45 pm to Esquire
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:45 pm to Esquire
quote:
quote:
Please tell me you can see this difference.
It's welfare for the financially illiterate.
Wrong.
It's government forced shared savings retirement account really.
And someone stated above, Social Security recipients PAID IN TO THE PROGRAM.
Welfare recipients are leaches that have not contributed, only receive.
Nice try though.
0
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:46 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
quote:
I did, it was largely assumption
there are all kinds of stats and studies cited in there
Statistics can be twisted in the absence of any counter, which is exactly what the article did.
It's clear you have absolutely no concept of how the system works.
When a poor person moves from part time to full time, what happens to their housing and food allowances?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:46 pm to BigJim
quote:
Wrong question (at least for this thread).
No, it's not. The focus is on the child & developing the best and brightest we can for the next generation. Environmental factors in childhood are at the forefront of that discussion.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:47 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:that isn't a function of just liking the programs. It's a function of the fact that the programs set the cut line too high
Most conservatives dislike any time of "entitlement" program, or at the very least want them to be first on the chopping block when it comes to spending cuts
quote:we're both of these groups is eligible for welfare checks?
howed that kids whose mothers received a very modest welfare check ended up with early-adult incomes that were 20 percent higher than those of mothers who didn’t receive checks, and were also 35 percent less likely to be underweight as adults and received additional schooling
quote:higher than who? People that receive the Earned Income Tax Credit are people who are working. So yes I would fully expect the children of people who qualify for the Earned Income Tax Credit to do better then lowering come children who don't
higher math scores, were more likely to graduate high school, and were more likely to complete one or more years of college.
Every example you gave uses terms like more likely and less likely without telling me more likely than who and less likely than who.
I personally support most social welfare programs. I just believe they should be focused moron people in actual need. The problem liberals have is that doing as I said doesn't buy enough votes
So it turns into a contest to see how many more people you can roll up into the program.
By the way just a note. Even if every single statistic you supplied was devoid of error that wouldn't negate the problem I'm pointing out regarding the cut line. Because no shite. When you give people more money they do better? Hell that applies to me too. Send me some checks.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:47 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
When a poor person moves from part time to full time, what happens to their housing and food allowances?
in most cases they will come out ahead. The article I linked went into detail about this.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:47 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Draconian, there are plenty of studies out there that indicate the welfare state can cause some negative outcomes
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:48 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Research on the Mothers' pension programs from the early 20th century showed that kids whose mothers received a very modest welfare check ended up with early-adult incomes that were 20 percent higher than those of mothers who didn’t receive checks, and were also 35 percent less likely to be underweight as adults and received additional schooling.
Comparing welfare in the early 20th century to programs today is meaningless. More importantly, measuring the outcome of those receiving welfare isn't the gauge of whether welfare programs are a net benefit. Individuals receiving welfare could benefit while, at the same time, recipients could grow due to the easily availability of the programs.
It's strange to me that you think the justification for welfare is that those on it benefit while totally ignoring the costs of welfare, along with the gradual decline of society as a result of welfare.
Most people who want welfare reform want to keep some level of it. A safety net is a reasonable thing to most. But, they also see that today's welfare programs are bloated and go waaaaay beyond temporary help. And, they recognize the downstream negative consequences of that.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:48 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
that doesn't mean they don't pay taxes
They don't pay into the system which supports them
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:48 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Every example you gave uses terms like more likely and less likely without telling me more likely than who and less likely than who.
thats why i provided the links, the explanation is there.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:48 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Muh Free stuff
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Draconian, there are plenty of studies out there that indicate the welfare state can cause some negative outcomes
I am not at all suggesting some reforms couldn't be beneficial. I'm talking about the philosophy behind their existence.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:49 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Statistics can be twisted in the absence of any counter, which is exactly what the article did.
The entire article was a monument to Liberal single variable thinking.
Liberals identify something they want to make better. Then they act on it. And their entire measure of success is weather that one thing got better
The idea that other variables are in the mix is always completely foreign to a liberal
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:50 pm to moneyg
quote:
But, they also see that today's welfare programs are bloated and go waaaaay beyond temporary help. And, they recognize the downstream negative consequences of that.
Correct.
Streamline, stop punishing those who seek to improve and require personal improvement for able bodied
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:50 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
The entire article was a monument to Liberal single variable thinking.
It was third grade level stuff for those seeking to confirm a bias
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:51 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
The idea that other variables are in the mix is always completely foreign to a liberal
Again, i am not at all suggesting there aren't ways to make these programs work better. I bet if you and i sat down and a table to hammer it out we could come to agreement on more of those things than you think. Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:51 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I am not at all suggesting some reforms couldn't be beneficial. I'm talking about the philosophy behind their existence
Actually what you did was illustrate bad liberal thinking
The entire support for your argument rested on single variable analysis.
The problem as I see it is that you apparently didn't realize that.
That's okay. That makes you like most Americans. It's why Americans fall for shite like eating a bunch of oat bran muffins because they think it's going to make them healthier. Someone crapped out a statistic regarding oat bran and no one fricking took the time to asked if the positive was all that existed
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:52 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
Anything showing that has occurred?
Is this a "they voted for Trump" gag?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:52 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
that doesn't mean they don't pay taxes
Food stamps are funded through federal income taxes. It means they are free riders, unlike the social security recipients you compared them to..
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:52 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It was third grade level stuff
you don't have to agree with the conclusions but this reductive and just plain wrong.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:52 pm to ShortyRob
quote:No. they’re measure of success is whether or not it made them feel better about themselves. Liberals don’t actually want to help poor people. They want to be able to tell their friends they support helping poor people. It’s vanity.
And their entire measure of success is weather that one thing got better
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