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Message
Handgun - Knockdown Power vs Concealment
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:38 am
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:38 am
Bought a Taurus 9 MM when I lived / worked in NOLA a while back. Was fine for concealed protection. 3.25 “ barrel , held 12 in the clip, etc.
Now, thinking of upgrading for home protection. Have the old faithful Remington 870 Express on standby. Was debating between a .40 or a .45.
What say you, Board? In a tough spot, does increase caliber make that much a difference? Even with hollow point bullets in my 9 MM?
Now, thinking of upgrading for home protection. Have the old faithful Remington 870 Express on standby. Was debating between a .40 or a .45.
What say you, Board? In a tough spot, does increase caliber make that much a difference? Even with hollow point bullets in my 9 MM?
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:42 am to Kreg Jennings
quote:
held 12 in the clip,
Hmmmmm
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:44 am to Kreg Jennings
Youre gonna get a lotttttttt of bullshite answers.
I like horsepower. I have a 357sig which is a little bit more than 9mm +p+ and I wish it was a 357 magnum.
.40 gets lots of hate around here but i like it with warm loads. I dont like 9mm.
I like horsepower. I have a 357sig which is a little bit more than 9mm +p+ and I wish it was a 357 magnum.
.40 gets lots of hate around here but i like it with warm loads. I dont like 9mm.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:44 am to Kreg Jennings
Shot placement is more important than “knockdown power”. A full size 9mm that holds almost 20 rounds will work just fine.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:45 am to Kreg Jennings
quote:
4/1/18 at 8:38 am
quote:
held 12 in the clip,
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:58 am to Kreg Jennings
Placement matters more. Instructor I know uses less powerful loads instead of the plus P rounds so he can have better placement.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 8:58 am to Kreg Jennings
16 in the clip and 1 in the hole, Nate dogg is about to make some bodies turn cold.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 9:01 am to Kreg Jennings
Conceal carry. Small frame/grip so smaller caliber makes the most sense. I have a 9mm that can handle +P loads. Best compromise of everything.
I have a full size M&P with 15 round capacity in 40 caliber I have for in my truck and home defense. Too big to conceal, but big enough that it feels good when shooting it with the bigger rounds.
I’m pretty happy with the two, knowing the limitations of each.
I have a full size M&P with 15 round capacity in 40 caliber I have for in my truck and home defense. Too big to conceal, but big enough that it feels good when shooting it with the bigger rounds.
I’m pretty happy with the two, knowing the limitations of each.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 10:32 am to Kreg Jennings
Concealment and comfort are based on the individuals body size and type
Knock down can be acheived with a .22 if the shot is properly placed
The key here is carry whatever caliber is the most comfortable to the individual and practice, practice, practice
Knock down can be acheived with a .22 if the shot is properly placed
The key here is carry whatever caliber is the most comfortable to the individual and practice, practice, practice
Posted on 4/1/18 at 10:57 am to Kreg Jennings
“Knockdown power” is a myth created by Hollywood movies literally knocking down people with a shotgun blast. None of that would happen in real life. And while I get that using the term “knockdown power” casually doesn’t necessarily imply this blatant ignoring of the laws of physics, it perpetuates bad information.
The terms you’re looking for are “muzzle energy” and “terminal performance.” Both more accurately describe how defensive rounds can incapacitate and “knock down” an attacker by causing blood loss, bone breakage, or damage to the central nervous system.
As for your question pertaining to .40 and .45, I’ll tell you what I tell all my students in my concealed carry classes - 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all pretty much do the same thing given you’re using tested and proven hollowpoint ammunition. One is light and fast, one is heavy and slow, and the other splits the difference. As for 12 gauge, it is certainly way above your standard handgun service rounds for terminal performance.
As for my personal preference, I carry 9mm for two main reasons: higher capacity and faster follow-up shots. As others have mentioned, it’s far better to learn to put shots quickly onto a silhouette target than to only shoot a bullseye with something like a 44 magnum. While the fundamentals of accurately shooting a handgun are important, for defensive handgun use it’s better to be fast and relatively accurate. Ultimate precision doesn’t matter as much as long as you’re hitting your target - I don’t care if I hit the left ventricle of someone’s heart, I would just prefer to hit them center-of-mass.
Sorry for the rant and you may have not meant it exactly how I presented it. Thanks for bringing up the topic.
The terms you’re looking for are “muzzle energy” and “terminal performance.” Both more accurately describe how defensive rounds can incapacitate and “knock down” an attacker by causing blood loss, bone breakage, or damage to the central nervous system.
As for your question pertaining to .40 and .45, I’ll tell you what I tell all my students in my concealed carry classes - 9mm Luger, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all pretty much do the same thing given you’re using tested and proven hollowpoint ammunition. One is light and fast, one is heavy and slow, and the other splits the difference. As for 12 gauge, it is certainly way above your standard handgun service rounds for terminal performance.
As for my personal preference, I carry 9mm for two main reasons: higher capacity and faster follow-up shots. As others have mentioned, it’s far better to learn to put shots quickly onto a silhouette target than to only shoot a bullseye with something like a 44 magnum. While the fundamentals of accurately shooting a handgun are important, for defensive handgun use it’s better to be fast and relatively accurate. Ultimate precision doesn’t matter as much as long as you’re hitting your target - I don’t care if I hit the left ventricle of someone’s heart, I would just prefer to hit them center-of-mass.
Sorry for the rant and you may have not meant it exactly how I presented it. Thanks for bringing up the topic.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 1:28 pm to Kreg Jennings
More rounds = better chance of hits
I'm not sure you'll find many people that have been hit by both a 9 and 45, but I suspect there isn't that much of a difference when it's going through your head
Or you could just go with a Glock 20 and have the best of both worlds
I'm not sure you'll find many people that have been hit by both a 9 and 45, but I suspect there isn't that much of a difference when it's going through your head
Or you could just go with a Glock 20 and have the best of both worlds
Posted on 4/1/18 at 2:36 pm to Bow08tie
quote:
Knock down can be acheived with a .22 if the shot is properly placed
100% correct.
A well placed .22 is better than a miss with a .45
Posted on 4/1/18 at 3:14 pm to Kreg Jennings
Find something that naturally fits you, shoot it as much as you can, pray that you are never in that .0005% that has to use it. Knockdown doesn't really matter because no one likes to get shot.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 5:43 pm to Kreg Jennings
Magazine capacity and shot placement are more important that the made up idea of “knockdown power.” The velocity of the round factors in to the size. What you are looking for is a round with the most energy when it hits your target. Stick with 9mm with at least 15 round magazine capacity.
This post was edited on 4/1/18 at 5:47 pm
Posted on 4/1/18 at 6:10 pm to Kreg Jennings
quote:
Now, thinking of upgrading for home protection
I wouldn't think you'd want a howitzer firing inside your home.. one miss and you hurt someone you love on the other side of the wall
Posted on 4/1/18 at 7:17 pm to Kreg Jennings
I have 9mm. It’s a matter of simple economics. I can afford to practice more often with 9mm ammo. I’m not in an occupation where people are out to kill me or I may be attacked by a sniper. At the close distances I figure for self defense the difference is marginal between a 9 and the larger more popular calibers. I put familiarity with my gun and accuracy above kinetic energy.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 7:22 pm to Marlbud
quote:
Find something that naturally fits you, shoot it as much as you can, pray that you are never in that .0005% that has to use it.
I concur with this. Placement is the name of the game. You don't want to be Dirty Harry. As the above poster indicated, pray you never have to use it to defend yourself.
Posted on 4/1/18 at 9:24 pm to damnedoldtigah
The question you are asking is like asking what kind of vehicle you should purchase. It all comes down to what you find to be the most comfortable. I have a Sig 9mm in the nightstand safe and an 870 in the bedroom closet. This combination gives me the best option in my opinion for possible home intruder type of situation. In my vehicle I carry an XDM 40 which works well for me because I love the 40 at close range. For concealment I either carry the M&P 9mm or the Pico .380.
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