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re: Many around the program – and outside of it – compare the scheme Ensminger is implementing

Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:28 pm to
Posted by Space Cowboy
Member since Oct 2016
4079 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:28 pm to
In your overexuberance to vilify O, you missed the gist of what I was saying.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

Is that what you took from what I said in great detail and clarified multiple times? you are fricking braindead


At least I know Sullivan is not the OC and is the passing game coordinator.

Or at least I know the passing game coordinator position is not the same thing as offensive coordinator.

Or at least I know the passing game coordinator with tons of NFL experience should be able to greatly help the LSU passing game over what LSU has had over the past few years.


Looking at your posts I don't think you even know what OC or passing game coordinator mean. I also don't think you know what each position is responsible for. If you do know either one of these you are truly an idiot based on YOUR very own posts.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:55 pm to
quote:

I couldn't give two craps if they know each other's shoe sizes and middle names. The system is all I've ever been talking about. It's a new system that this staff hasn't run as a unit.


How about knowing the players and being with them for over a year? Does that help at all?

you are right as far as not running it as a unit. They have run at least one other offense for a year as a unit and another offense for multiple years together for some of them. The majority of the coaches are familiar with the offense or a very similar version of it.




Not the article but a little of another one:

"In 1990, how behind was Georgia’s passing offense?

“We were running the same offense as Herschel Walker did,” said Garrison Hearst, a Heisman Trophy finalist in 1992 while playing in Ensminger’s Georgia offense.

Ensminger called many of the plays during that three-year stint in Athens, Hearst said, but he’s mostly known for his work with Zeier. The quarterback set every SEC passing record before he left the school, and Ensminger and McDuffie revamped Georgia’s run-heavy scheme to one that led the SEC in passing.

Goff won 46 games as UGA’s head coach in seven seasons, and 19 of them came in 1991 and 1992 — Ensminger’s first two years on staff.

“I had a great privilege of working with a number of really good coaches throughout my playing career. I’d put Steve at the top of the list,” said Zeier, now a mortgage banker who lives in Atlanta and serves as the color commentator on Georgia radio broadcasts.

Zeier and Hearst describe a system most similar to the West Coast offense, a scheme Bill Walsh popularized in the 1980s with the San Francisco 49ers. Zeier’s passing progression was short to deep, he said. Formations evolved from an I-formation look into a three- and four-receiver set, with one back. Georgia heavily used the shotgun, too, and the run game was built on zone blocking.

It was creative at the time and one of the first offenses to begin to spread it out and get into the four-wide sets and be aggressive throwing,” Zeier said.

“I got to Frisco and realized I was running a pro scheme in college,” said Hearst, who spent five seasons with the 49ers."

LSU’s passing game has been a laughingstock nationally recently. The unit finished no better than 101st nationally for three straight years, 2014-16, and only marginally improved to 84th this season with a fifth-year starting quarterback.
Posted by TigerLunatik
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jan 2005
93740 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 5:55 pm to
quote:

In your overexuberance to vilify O, you missed the gist of what I was saying.

I don't need to villify Orgeron, there are plenty people that do that already. I was just pointing out the irony of O's biggest supporter saying basically the same things that you've been arguing against so hard.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:01 pm to
quote:

after reading many of your posts I do not believe you are this "visual person" you describe. you would be completely functionally illiterate.


Okay maybe just visual when it comes to people. Seriously, when you think of someone do you visualize what they look like?

I do. I never realized it before today and this thread, but I can't think of someone without visualizing what they look like or how I remember them looking. When I think of my best friend from high school that is how I visualize him. Even though I have seen him two or three times since he moved to Tennessee after graduation.
Posted by Rickdaddy4188
Murfreesboro,TN
Member since Aug 2011
46626 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:20 pm to
quote:

deep balls off of bootlegs are a significant piece of the scheme,


will suck. slow developing play where you cut your available field of play in half
Posted by LSUgrad08112
Member since May 2016
2925 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:31 pm to
Passing game coordinator = co offensive coordinator. Deny it all you want, semantics don’t change reality. The guy is “coordinating” the biggest part of our offense this season alongside Ensminger.

Can you explain to me the supposedly huge difference between “gulf coast offense passing game coordinator” and “co-offensive coordinator”? Honest question. You’re the football genius here so I’m sure that you can clarify my misunderstanding.
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:47 pm to
Go back to the soccer or checkers board or wherever the hell you came from.

I thought you were half as messing around. How's the saying go? "Best to remain quiet and thought to be an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt".

So you are saying that right now LSU has not one, not two, BUT THREE offensive coordinators?
Posted by LSU GrandDad
houston, texas
Member since Jun 2009
21564 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

Okay maybe just visual when it comes to people. Seriously, when you think of someone do you visualize what they look like?


I think it's semantics. of course I visualize what people look like when I think of them. even talking to people I've never met (on the phone) I visualize what they look like. it's just normal for us people to do that. ever talk to a woman on the phone with a real sexy voice and then later meeting her and she's big and fat and has facial hair? NOW THAT'S VISUALIZATION!

seriously, being a "visual person" is actually a concrete condition and those with that condition usually excel in geometry and advanced mathematics but can't read a book and are terrible at communications. I know, I married one.

p.s. I like the vast majority of your posts.
Posted by dukke v
PLUTO
Member since Jul 2006
203438 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:51 pm to
quote:

deep balls off of bootlegs are a significant piece of the scheme,




quote:

will suck. slow developing play where you cut your available field of play in half



YOU sound like YOU could do A better job than Ensminger......
Posted by PiscesTiger
Concrete, WA
Member since Feb 2004
53696 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:53 pm to
I remember saying to myself after the 2007 osu national championship game that we may not see another one until we find coaches like O and Ensminger. Here we are!
Posted by Goldrush25
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
33794 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 6:58 pm to
quote:

Part of Saban's advantage is in his (and some of his more longer-term personnel) ability to manage the two staffs, thereby maximizing the advantage (the man is all about efficiency).



quote:

So while just having the staff probably will lead to improvements, it will be up to Orgeron (and couple others) to determine if it turns into significant improvements.



Right.

These type of staffers provide analytics. But what good do analytics do for a coach when he makes decisions off of emotion, his gut or because of what happened this one time he had the same decision and it didn't work out? They don't do a damn thing.

I believe certain coaches benefit greatly from analytics, but only because that's how their mind works anyway, dealing in probabilities and advanced metrics. If you've never used them in the first place I doubt you'd be able to gain an appreciation for their application to the game.

I can understand gleaning certain things from coaches but every coach has to ultimately have his own core identity. I don't know what that is for us.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 6:59 pm
Posted by blackmouthcur
Member since Sep 2016
400 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 7:12 pm to
quote:

Indeed. 

Part of Saban's advantage is in his (and some of his more longer-term personnel) ability to manage the two staffs, thereby maximizing the advantage (the man is all about efficiency). 

So while just having the staff probably will lead to improvements, it will be up to Orgeron (and couple others) to determine if it turns into significant improvements. 

Part of the reason I wish Austin Thomas hadn't done [to himself] what he did. Such things in partnership with a HC are right up his alley.


Yes, sir. We'll have to make do. Thanks. GEAUX TIGERS!
Posted by Tiger in Tampa
Illinois
Member since Jul 2008
159 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

I never said the "ring" will make a difference in anything besides giving a probable boost in recruiting


Just curious, if you were to rank all of the factors that sway a recruit’s decision to attend one school over another, where do you think super bowl rings for position coaches would fall?

I’m sure it’s not going to hurt, but I think you’re putting way too much stock into it.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 7:35 pm
Posted by roger79
Welcome Home, Scott
Member since Dec 2012
3226 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 7:39 pm to
So I’m confused based on the poor writing in the story. Are the coaches going to visit the Rams or the Chargers?
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

I’m sure it’s not going to hurt, but I think you’re putting way too much stock into it.


All I have to go by is what recruits say. Most recently what 5-star OL Kenyon Green and his father have said.

quote:

if you were to rank all of the factors that sway a recruit’s decision to attend one school over another, where do you think super bowl rings for position coaches would fall?


Depends on the player. If the sole goal in their life at this time is to play in the NFL I think the ring matters quite a bit. Right up there with how many freshmen and upperclassmen OL he has coached to All-American status and how many players he has gotten to the pros. Which I believe were also covered by Kenyon in the link I provided earlier. I know the guys to the NFL were.

Others:

Location for parents, grandparents to see them play
State pride and wanting to play for the home school
Friends/girlfriends. I think LSU got a BB player for this class because of his girlfriend being a BB player at LSU.
Relationships with staff
School offering the major that the player wants to pursue.
In the case of Bama how much they will get paid and what type and how often will they receive an automobile.
I think this would also be with the NFL but a school being known for a position - DBU

A few off the top of my head. Like I said the "ring" hierarchy would depend on what the recruits goals were.
Posted by Tiger in Tampa
Illinois
Member since Jul 2008
159 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

All I have to go by is what recruits say. Most recently what 5-star OL Kenyon Green and his father have said.


What did they say, can you link it? I skimmed the article you posted earlier, but didn’t see anything mentioned by either about his SB ring, but I may have missed it.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 8:17 pm
Posted by Goldrush25
San Diego, CA
Member since Oct 2012
33794 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 8:06 pm to
quote:

Depends on the player. If the sole goal in their life at this time is to play in the NFL I think the ring matters quite a bit. Right up there with how many freshmen and upperclassmen OL he has coached to All-American status and how many players he has gotten to the pros. Which I believe were also covered by Kenyon in the link I provided earlier. I know the guys to the NFL were.



I'm not following how a SB ring is a testament to a coach's ability to get someone to the NFL.
This post was edited on 3/23/18 at 8:08 pm
Posted by Tiger Ree
Houston
Member since Jun 2004
24557 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

What did they say, can you link it?


These are quotes mostly from the dad after the whole family visited LSU unofficially for three days. Including Kenyon's birthday that he spent with the coaching staff in Death Valley. Kenyon has quote(s) at the bottom of the article.

5-star tackle Kenyon Green ‘still very much in love’ with LSU

Kenyon Green celebrates 17th birthday at LSU

I wanted him in that purple and gold, and it looked great

we made a promise to Coach O [Ed Orgeron], we came and started a relationship with Coach [James] Cregg

My wife loved the school. I love the school and my daughter was loving it.

Those were a few quotes from the top of the page. It gets into the relationship with the staff, the academics, etc, etc, etc. Very good article for someone who likes LSU.



Five-star Texas offensive lineman Kenyon Green and his family spent three days visiting LSU last week. (JR Green/courtesy)
Posted by Tiger in Tampa
Illinois
Member since Jul 2008
159 posts
Posted on 3/23/18 at 8:31 pm to
So nothing about the SB ring...I figured as much. Unless you’re talking about a well-known SB champion, like Brady, Montana, Belichick, etc,, I don’t think the ring will resonate with a high school football player. The ring would have to be worn by a player or coach that is widely considered “great” to make a significant impact on most recruits.
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