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re: GoT Middle Ground Thread - SN 7 - NO LEAK DISCUSSION ALLOWED - Book discussion okay
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:14 pm to PsychTiger
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:14 pm to PsychTiger
The last person to post in that thread is the same guy who "guessed" a scene last week point by point and then argued for days that he didn't watch the leak.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:16 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
The last person to post in that thread is the same guy who "guessed" a scene last week point by point and then argued for days that he didn't watch the leak.
I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:17 pm to 1BamaRTR
we don't...
He was badly poisoned, no longer eats or drinks, and is purple so it can be assumed.
He was badly poisoned, no longer eats or drinks, and is purple so it can be assumed.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:25 pm to 1BamaRTR
He doesn't have a head in the books? Damn, I missed that some how.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:28 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
He doesn't have a head in the books? Damn, I missed that some how.
Not sure if it's 100% confirmed, but it's strongly implied.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:32 pm to Scoob
quote:
Also, for those clamoring for Cleganebowl- just what, exactly, is the Hound supposed to do with the Mountain? Nothing we've learned about the Night King's zombies seem to apply to him; different type of reanimation. I'd guess that you would have to basically destroy the entire body, since he's already "dead"; and that wouldn't be an easy thing to do when he's trying to kill you. I suspect a dragon could eat or burn him, but the Hound isn't able to do either of those
I just don't see what anything smaller than a dragon would do to break him.
adding this question= do we think the Mountain is "dead enough" that the Night King can do anything with him, or is he now safe, like Benjen is? The Children stopped Benjen's conversion and it left him basically like the Mountain; cold, black and pale, but no glowing blue eyes.
I never thought, reading the book, that the Mountain died. He was poisoned, when Dameon Sand put poison on the Red Viper's weapon.
I was under the assumption it was more or less a blood/body transfusion.
In the book, Bronn got his castle & bride, after the Battle of Blackwater.
His wife was the girl that was abducted and raped when Joeffrey was attacked returning from bring his sister to the dock. She was recovered by the Kingsguard, but she got pregnant.
Scene from the show-When Tyrion was wrong and Cersei was right
The pregnant bride sister, Bronn's sister in law, is upset that a sellsword and her younger sister you gave birth to a son via rape, owns lands adjacent to her.
When Bronn names the son Tyrion, his sister in law goes to Cersei, who tells her to have her husband to kill Bronn. Instead of murdering him, he challenges Bronn to a joust.
Bronn does basically does this-(show clip)
Daario Naharis Kills the Champion of Mereen
The widow (Bronn's SIL) goes crying to Cersei, she is pissed that Bronn is still alive, so she give her to Qyburn to do his business. I believe Cersi said her crying was worse than Gregor Clegane's cries.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:33 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
He doesn't have a head in the books? Damn, I missed that some how.
They returned his head to the Martells as a favor in the books. He's reanimated nonetheless though, and everyone knows it.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:39 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Not sure if it's 100% confirmed, but it's strongly implied.
I assumed, no head was a nod to his tournament @Ashford (Egg & Dunk stories)
quote:
It was a blow from Maekar's mace which gave his brother Baelor his severe head injury. Baelor had entered the trial wearing his son's lighter armor, which did not fit properly and didn't provide adequate protection. Maekar had not meant to severely harm Baelor, and Baelor seemed fine at first, acknowledging that it was an accident. Soon, however, Baelor started behaving drunkenly, and when his helmet was taken off, part of his skull fell out of it: the blow had caved his head in, and part of his brain was visible. Baelor collapsed and soon died. The guilt of accidentally killing his own brother haunted Maekar for the rest of his days.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:42 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
They returned his head to the Martells as a favor in the books
it was hotly debated by those in Dorne, if it was legit
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:48 pm to iluvdatiger
quote:
Did Jon ship the dragonglass to the North?
Either the dragonglass is still on the boat at Eastwatch OR they had somebody from Winterfell meet them at the docks on the way to Eastwatch and unloaded the dragonglass so the winterfell smiths could get started on the weapons.
We never saw them actually mining the dragon glass. We didn't even see any "workers" other than Jon Snow and Davos. I wouldn't be surprised if that tiny wooden box that Jorah put on the boat was the dragon glass they had mined.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 12:33 am to TigerinATL
quote:Which is odd, considering the circumstances... Jon came for both her help and to get dragonglass. First couple of episodes, she wasn't even considering helping unless he would bend the knee, but on the other hand, she did say he was free to mine the glass, and "whatever you need, ask" or something like that.
We never saw them actually mining the dragon glass. We didn't even see any "workers" other than Jon Snow and Davos.
Since she wasn't going to send troops to his aid, but had a ton of glass, offered to help with that, and had about a hundred thousand Dothraki sitting around with their thumbs up thair asses at that moment, I would have thought Jon might say "y'know, if you don't mind, a few guys to lend a hand would be nice".
Posted on 8/18/17 at 12:34 am to OMLandshark
quote:how do we know a flaming sword would kill him? Serious question
quote:
Also, for those clamoring for Cleganebowl- just what, exactly, is the Hound supposed to do with the Mountain? Nothing we've learned about the Night King's zombies seem to apply to him; different type of reanimation. I'd guess that you would have to basically destroy the entire body, since he's already "dead"; and that wouldn't be an easy thing to do when he's trying to kill you. I suspect a dragon could eat or burn him, but the Hound isn't able to do either of those
Easy: Kill him with a flaming sword. It would be redemption for the Hound and would overcome his fear of fire. The Hound is a much better and resourceful fighter than the Mountain is. The Mountain simply relies on his ungodly armor and strength to win a battle.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 12:47 am to Scoob
quote:
how do we know a flaming sword would kill him? Serious question
He's undead and that's their greatest weakness. Plus it would bring the Hound full circle on his courage and what his brother did to him. The Mountain will get two karmic deaths: one for what he did to Elia and her children, and the other for what he did to his brother.
I still laugh my arse off every time I read what Pycelle says about the Mountain's fate after his battle with Oberyn:
quote:
The flesh mortifies and the wounds ooze pus. Even maggots will not touch such foulness. His convulsions are so violent that I have had to gag him to prevent him from biting off his own tongue. I have cut away as much tissue as I dare, and treated the rot with boiling wine and bread mold, to no avail. The veins in his arms are turning black. When I leeched him, all the leeches died.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 1:16 am to OMLandshark
quote:I haven't read the books, is that part of the established lore?
quote:
how do we know a flaming sword would kill him? Serious question
He's undead and that's their greatest weakness.
What I see in the shows is that the Night King's wights are vulnerable to fire if they're dried up and withered, and they burn like straw. And they burn the dead so there's only ashes, not bodies to reanimate.
The Mountain isn't a blue-eyed wight, he isn't all dried up, and your description
quote:describe him as rather ripe and juicy, doesn't sound like he'd burn easily.
The flesh mortifies and the wounds ooze pus. Even maggots will not touch such foulness. His convulsions are so violent that I have had to gag him to prevent him from biting off his own tongue. I have cut away as much tissue as I dare, and treated the rot with boiling wine and bread mold, to no avail. The veins in his arms are turning black
He's big enough to take a few hacks from a blade, and I would guess he's even less susceptible to pain now. I don't think a flaming sword cuts him down like a lightsaber, and nobody can afford to trade blows with him, not even the Hound.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 1:39 am to PsychTiger
Here's another question, thinking ahead (and there aren't any spoilers to this question, just based on previous episodes):
the big plan seems to be- go north of the Wall, capture an undead wight, and bring it back to convince Cersei that... the end of the world is coming.
Anyone see the problem with this (something Dany et al don't know)?
Cersei already has a zombie of her own, the Mountain. Qyburn made it for her.
Cersei could ask Qyburn, her Hand, for an objective analysis, and he might say:
our zombie is more controlled and docile, theirs is feral. And has blue eyes. Interesting, not sure why that is. It's certainly a different technique.
Danaerys has traveled deeply into Essos, was able to procure dragons from who knows where; the rumor is that she did magic to convert petrified eggs back to viable ones. Other rumors about her, too, surrounding why the Dothraki worship her. She's been a lot closer to the Lands of Shadow than we have. We don't know what she can do, but this is something we've already done ourselves.
Bottom line- this could be a trick, to lure us into opening the gates and exposing our forces. She may feint going North, but her dragons and light calvary can quickly turn about and catch us in the open field.
If I were advising her, I'd at least bring this up as a disclaimer.
the big plan seems to be- go north of the Wall, capture an undead wight, and bring it back to convince Cersei that... the end of the world is coming.
Anyone see the problem with this (something Dany et al don't know)?
Cersei already has a zombie of her own, the Mountain. Qyburn made it for her.
Cersei could ask Qyburn, her Hand, for an objective analysis, and he might say:
our zombie is more controlled and docile, theirs is feral. And has blue eyes. Interesting, not sure why that is. It's certainly a different technique.
Danaerys has traveled deeply into Essos, was able to procure dragons from who knows where; the rumor is that she did magic to convert petrified eggs back to viable ones. Other rumors about her, too, surrounding why the Dothraki worship her. She's been a lot closer to the Lands of Shadow than we have. We don't know what she can do, but this is something we've already done ourselves.
Bottom line- this could be a trick, to lure us into opening the gates and exposing our forces. She may feint going North, but her dragons and light calvary can quickly turn about and catch us in the open field.
If I were advising her, I'd at least bring this up as a disclaimer.
This post was edited on 8/18/17 at 1:42 am
Posted on 8/18/17 at 5:31 am to Scoob
Realistically ANY plan predicated upon Cersei voluntarily joining in a United war effort in good faith is dumb. Like really dumb. Danny has people around her that should know this, which is why I don't understand this plot line at all.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 5:33 am to CorporateTiger
Tyrion of all people should know this...
unless Tyrion's chat with Jaime involved Cersei's death and Jaime handing the Iron Throne over to Dany if they prove the wights are real.
unless Tyrion's chat with Jaime involved Cersei's death and Jaime handing the Iron Throne over to Dany if they prove the wights are real.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 5:37 am to saintsfan92612
And Varys.. and Jon. Olenna also would have told her Cersei is a psycho.
I got this idea from a podcast, but if they are going to go capture a wight to convince people to join in the war effort then why not take it to the Maesters and have them send ravens to try and convince all the other lords to join in? That way you isolate Cersei and could leave a few Dothraki to pin her in KL until you finished the war.
I got this idea from a podcast, but if they are going to go capture a wight to convince people to join in the war effort then why not take it to the Maesters and have them send ravens to try and convince all the other lords to join in? That way you isolate Cersei and could leave a few Dothraki to pin her in KL until you finished the war.
This post was edited on 8/18/17 at 5:37 am
Posted on 8/18/17 at 5:59 am to Scoob
You're overthinking it. Cersei is pretty much ready to agree to an armistice to buy time because she knows she's outmanned on the battlefield. She said as much when talking to Jaime.
Posted on 8/18/17 at 6:25 am to TigerinATL
Except (a) if Cersei is in such bad shape she wants and armistice then you should just finish her and (b) this is still a recipe to be betrayed.
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