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Started By
Message
re: Chemical Safety Board releases animation of fire at 2016 BR Exxon refinery
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:50 am to FalseProphet
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:50 am to FalseProphet
Both. Exxon should replace outdated equipment. Operators need to use common sense.
3
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:50 am to jmh5724
quote:
Common sense would tell you to put the bolts back in before operating the valve.
Perhaps, but that valve was only 3% of the total valves with that configuration. If anything, it should've been painted bright pink or had some sort of tag to identify that setup. Seems like a design/engineering failure.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:53 am to Tigeralum2008
That's an awesomely detailed video.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:57 am to When in Rome
All of the CSB's videos are this good. Dig around on YouTube.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 10:58 am to jbgleason
You would be surprised about what people yourself included will miss in certain situations depending on outside factors at the time. They could have been newly trained on the task, or as the video said, 97% of the valves would not have caused this issue. This valve very well could have been the first one they have seen and reverted back to their knowledge of working on the other valves. Plus you do not know what other factors might have come into play at the time when removing the bolts.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:24 am to Tigeralum2008
Just a minor thing but isn't the pipe wrench being used in the wrong direction?
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 11:26 am
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:41 am to ShoeBang
quote:
We beg our customers to inspect old valves and replace SO WE CAN MAKE MONEY all the time.
FIFY
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:42 am to autauga
quote:
Common sense would tell you to put the bolts back in before operating the valve.
I'd think that there is pressure on the bonnet of that valve no matter if the valve is open or closed. the turning just got it loose, and or applied more pressure.
and i could see that if an operator has never seen a valve built like that, then he wouldnt know to look for such an issue.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 11:46 am to FalseProphet
quote:
Honest question, because I don't know shite about plants: Whose fault was the fire? Exxon? The Operators?
The operator I believe is at fault. When the scope of the job changed, there should have been a discussion about how this affects the work. Then an permit perhaps to remove the gear assembly, or a work order put in for the assembly to be rebuilt.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:04 pm to PaperPaintball92
quote:
Oh, so now the fire never happened?
Of course it happened. There was a thread on here with pictures someone took from across the river. You were just way off on how you said it happened. I saw first hand what caused that fire and it had nothing to do with anyone working out there.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:11 pm to JonTheTigerFan
Thanks for proving my point perfectly, Jon. I'm still waiting on your explanation for the HCLA fire.
I remember sitting through several extensive safety briefs when contractors would make a mistake in the plant. It's funny, because there was no safety brief after the HCLA fire. It was actually never brought up to our company in any way. They turned us around at the gate that morning when I got to work and that was it. I have this overwhelming feeling that the lack of information made clear to us was because it was ultimately Exxon's neglect of equipment that caused the fire. Just like the fire in the animation caused by an outdated valve.
If you're going to run a multi billion dollar business, do it right. Exxon needs to stop postponing the updates on safety equipment in order to save a few dollars.
I remember sitting through several extensive safety briefs when contractors would make a mistake in the plant. It's funny, because there was no safety brief after the HCLA fire. It was actually never brought up to our company in any way. They turned us around at the gate that morning when I got to work and that was it. I have this overwhelming feeling that the lack of information made clear to us was because it was ultimately Exxon's neglect of equipment that caused the fire. Just like the fire in the animation caused by an outdated valve.
If you're going to run a multi billion dollar business, do it right. Exxon needs to stop postponing the updates on safety equipment in order to save a few dollars.
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:13 pm to Prominentwon
quote:
These companies make billions, hand over fist and preach safety safety safety, but in turn they fail to be proactive when it comes to their equipment. They prefer to be reactive and "save money." While in the long run, they'll lose money on the back end when the unit is down.
"Run it until it breaks" (then have meetings on top of meetings to determine how we can do better) seems to be the common denominator in a lot of places.
This post was edited on 7/27 at 9:51 am
THIS +1000.
I can't tell you how much shite is not working properly in our unit but it is not being fixed because that would mean slowing production for a day or 2. But safety is supposed to come first
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:14 pm to cfish140
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:15 pm to cfish140
The picture in the OP doesnt appear to be from the incident in the CSB. The alky fire occurred during the day.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:29 pm to cfish140
quote:
can't tell you how much shite is not working properly in our unit but it is not being fixed because that would mean slowing production for a day or 2. But safety is supposed to come firs
I used to think this until I spent time reviewing the methods used to determine safety risks and acceptable mitigation.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:34 pm to Tigeralum2008
You couldn't pay me enough money to work in that dump of a plant.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:35 pm to jimjackandjose
Sigh
This post was edited on 7/27/17 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:36 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Perhaps, but that valve was only 3% of the total valves with that configuration. If anything, it should've been painted bright pink or had some sort of tag to identify that setup. Seems like a design/engineering failure.
3% is not the norm, but it's also not some unicorn that nobody has ever seen. Like others have said, it's pretty obvious that you're removing important bolts.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:40 pm to Jester
The equivalent is blaming the tire or Chevrolet for your wheel falling off after removing the lug nuts.
They took the bonnet bolts off the fricking valve. Then tried to operate it. This is operator training 101.
They took the bonnet bolts off the fricking valve. Then tried to operate it. This is operator training 101.
Posted on 7/27/17 at 12:42 pm to PaperPaintball92
quote:
I'm still waiting on your explanation for the HCLA fire.
Nah, I don't have to explain to you how it happened. Just know it wasn't some "jet fuel leaking onto a compressor roof" or whatever you said it was. You acted like people knew something was wrong when that couldn't be further from the truth.
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