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Started By
Message
re: Single-payer would be a nightmare for Americans
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:29 am to BamaAtl
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:29 am to BamaAtl
quote:
No, it wouldn't.
Just the thought of the government having their hands in my own personal healthcare decisions is a nightmare.
I wish that I could just go choose whatever plan that I want, with whatever things that I want covered, and it come from a company that is in any state and the government just stay out of it. Let me deal with the consequences of it if they arise. I don't need the government to be a freaking parent wiping my face and changing my diaper.
0
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:34 am to WeeWee
quote:
Supporters of single-payer claim that it would eliminate wasteful spending and improve the quality of care.
Like it has at the VA, right?
quote:
Translation: 44% of Americans can not grasp the concept.
All they have to do is look at Sweden's healthcare and how it's paid for (hint: the income tax rate is a graduating scale that ranges from ~49% up to ~60% on top of a 25% VAT). In typical liberal mentality they'll think someone else pays that tax right up to the moment they see their paystub. By then it will be too late.
This is why we need more of a focus on basic economics in grade schools.
This post was edited on 7/25/17 at 10:35 am
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they're "extreme" compared to our current abundance
Not when you consider that we ration before we grant access to care at all, and they don't.
quote:
it's no about rationing. it's about government-created waste
There's waste in every system, government and private.
quote:
how do you think a single entity can run a system this large
Because it already does. We call it CMS.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:46 am to Bard
quote:
Like it has at the VA, right?
A VA-style system isn't what's being proposed as single payer. More Medicare or Medicaid for all, or some form of universal catastrophic coverage.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:48 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Not when you consider that we ration before we grant access to care at all, and they don't.
only by the crazy and inapplicable definition of "rationing" you use (which is not what the person you responded to was using)
we can call the behavior he posted about "unicorn farts" if you wish to reply with another form of the word "rationing". tell me which words you want to use for the behaviors he and i are referencing b/c i don't care, but we're not using "rationing" as a general reference to market supply and demand. we are talking about an active choice by an overriding agency and not the inability of a consumer to pay for a good
quote:
There's waste in every system, government and private.
and one (government) has more because it doesn't have to deal with market forces an competition. look no further than the Pentagon/military. a cesspool of waste and inefficiencies.
quote:
Because it already does. We call it CMS.
CMS covers 44M people, or about 15% o our population
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:52 am to SlowFlowPro
Can you list out the rationed procedures in a country with universal coverage? Surely if it's decided by some overarching bureaucracy, they've published a list. Thanks in advance.
Private has more waste if you count profit as waste.
quote:
and one (government) has more because it doesn't have to deal with market forces an competition
Private has more waste if you count profit as waste.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:54 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Not when you consider that we ration before we grant access
By that token, we need to immediately stop rationing cars, and food, and homes, and jobs.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:56 am to BamaAtl
quote:Someone doesn't understand fault-tolerant systems.
Not any more of a nightmare than our current patchwork system.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:56 am to BamaAtl
quote:At a cost of between 2 and 3-fold stated European costs. Sounds like a real winner.
More Medicare or Medicaid for all
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:56 am to BamaAtl
quote:
A VA-style system isn't what's being proposed as single payer. More Medicare or Medicaid for all, or some form of universal catastrophic coverage.
Yes let's take two systems that are on the path to insolvency and put every American into them!
Great plan!
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:58 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
By that token, we need to immediately stop rationing cars, and food, and homes, and jobs.
No, we need to stop comparing our wait times for buying a car to a country that mandates that everyone gets a car as part of their usual taxes.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:58 am to BamaAtl
quote:We're not countries. Nor or demographics and geographical distributions similar.
Other countries that have single payer systems without extreme rationing.
quote:So you think fraud will be reduced with a larger and better funded government program?
That has nothing to do with rationing, and everything to do with fraud.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 10:59 am to BamaAtl
quote:If you understood not-for-profit accounting . . . at all . . . we could have an intelligent conversation about this. You don't. So we can't.
if you count profit
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:01 am to BigJim
quote:But... it'll be different next time! All they need is more money, and more power to get it right.
Yes let's take two systems that are on the path to insolvency and put every American into them!
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:01 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Other countries that have single payer systems without extreme rationing.
See the UK and Canada linked in the article.
quote:
That has nothing to do with rationing, and everything to do with fraud.
Apparently you failed to comprehend that was an example to showcase the astronomical costs of government healthcare without rationing.
quote:
10% of medicare's budget was spent on fraud, improper payments, and waste.
That has nothing to do with rationing, and everything to do with fraud.
See the above.
Without massive rationing, government healthcare pays out the arse in fraud and waste. With rationing the ppl suffer. Bottom line, government is not efficient enough to run healthcare.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:04 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
not-for-profit accounting
Are you under the impression that Aetna is a not-for-profit corporation? Their shareholders might be shocked to learn that.
It would be nice if you learned a little about the American health care system, and we could have an intelligent conversation about that. Alas, here we are.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:04 am to WeeWee
The VA and Medicare/Medicaid prove to any thinking person that the US Government can't be entrusted with single payer healthcare.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:05 am to WeeWee
I don't know that it would be successful here, but to assume that it would be either a success or a failure without a fair and honest survey of countries that do have single payer systems is a waste of thought.
A friend of mine that, due to his line of work, has many European colleagues recently hosted a discussion about the opinions of those colleagues related to health care. Those in single payer systems were almost unanimously satisfied with the level of care compared to their experiences with other systems.
Of course, we could easily find a way to screw up any health care system, so I don't base my curiosity about single payer solely on those sort of informal discussions. I do consider it as valuable input though.
A friend of mine that, due to his line of work, has many European colleagues recently hosted a discussion about the opinions of those colleagues related to health care. Those in single payer systems were almost unanimously satisfied with the level of care compared to their experiences with other systems.
Of course, we could easily find a way to screw up any health care system, so I don't base my curiosity about single payer solely on those sort of informal discussions. I do consider it as valuable input though.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:09 am to PepeSilvia
I can already see the endless layers of bureaucratic red tape that will come with a single-payer system that not one single person will like. Many will be left sorely dissatisfied with the efficiency and quality of their healthcare.
What a utopia we will have when all of us get to share in the crappy misery of what people on medicaid or veterans have to deal with.
What a utopia we will have when all of us get to share in the crappy misery of what people on medicaid or veterans have to deal with.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 11:20 am to Roll Tide Ravens
My very conservative mother and step-father hate the idea of single payer, yet they are very satisfied with their health care now. It's Tricare, which is essentially the military version of single payer.
Now, I'm sure there are plenty of people that despise Tricare, but there are plenty of people that desire BC/BS, Aetna, Kaiser Permanente, etc. There's also multitude than can afford none of them.
I don't care for government bureaucracy so much, but I'm also not so keen on the plans by the GOP. I see no less potential for bureacracy in those plans.
You can argue the States rights platforms, but when you live in a state like Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, etc., you're arguing for your system to be arbitrated not by sly foxes, but by the most corruptible wolves this side of the Fort Lee bridge.
Their plans so far also don't add to the promises of the guy that many of you voted for as president.
Now, I'm sure there are plenty of people that despise Tricare, but there are plenty of people that desire BC/BS, Aetna, Kaiser Permanente, etc. There's also multitude than can afford none of them.
I don't care for government bureaucracy so much, but I'm also not so keen on the plans by the GOP. I see no less potential for bureacracy in those plans.
You can argue the States rights platforms, but when you live in a state like Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, etc., you're arguing for your system to be arbitrated not by sly foxes, but by the most corruptible wolves this side of the Fort Lee bridge.
Their plans so far also don't add to the promises of the guy that many of you voted for as president.
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