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re: Almost Mid-Season MLB Awards
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:54 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:54 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
Seager at two is very reasonable. Zimmerman has been better at the plate, but Seager has a huge defensive edge and has played more. As great as Zimmerman has been, I think you could argue he hasn't even been a top 3 valuable Nat (Harper, Rendon, Scherzer).
This post was edited on 6/27/17 at 12:55 pm
0
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:54 pm to WestCoastAg
What if I told you that seager was 7th in WAR though?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:55 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
Hes second on fangraphs 
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:56 pm to WestCoastAg
Why the frick are there different WARs?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 12:59 pm to rockchlkjayhku11
Because people don't always put value on the same stats. Mainly UZR is more favorable to Seager than DRS
This post was edited on 6/27/17 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:06 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
fwiw xwOBA suggests that Zimmerman has been playing over his head a little bit at the plate, he has a xwOBA of 405 and an actual wOBA of over 420, and Seager has been underperforming, a xwOBA of 410 and an actual wOBA of under 390
Not sure the relevance of posting a stat would "suggest" Zimmerman has played over his head. This isn't a thread predicated on projecting a player's full-season performance. Your thread title, and the entire discussion, has centered around how everyone has played to this point.
quote:
it supports my argument that Seagers overall level of play is a reason why I would put him #2
I know that it does. The problem is that's your sole argument, outside of a stat that tells us what he's expected to do.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:10 pm to BenDover
quote:Sure, but it's just another point to bring up how Seager hasn't had a poor season at the plate. I've already said that zimmerman has been better, because he has
Your thread title, and the entire discussion, has centered around how everyone has played to this point.
quote:no it isn't
The problem is that's your sole argument
My argument is based in how not only has Seager been competent at the plate, but that he has also been competent in the field at a premium position and that there are numbers out there to suggest that Seager has had a more valuable first half because of how well he has played in the field
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:23 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
Sure, but it's just another point to bring up how Seager hasn't had a poor season at the plate.
It'd be tough to find anyone who thinks Seager has had a poor season at the plate. Not hitting as well as Zimmerman has to this point doesn't mean Seager has had a poor season.
quote:
My argument is based in how not only has Seager been competent at the plate, but that he has also been competent in the field at a premium position and that there are numbers out there to suggest that Seager has had a more valuable first half because of how well he has played in the field
Let me ask you this. What's more impactful-- Hitting .344 with 18 bombs and an OPS of 1.029 and being below average defensively. Or batting .298 with 12 HR and an OPS of .908 while being the 9th best fielder at your position?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:25 pm to WestCoastAg
Rangers relief pitchers - F
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:30 pm to BenDover
quote:i know
Not hitting as well as Zimmerman has to this point doesn't mean Seager has had a poor season.
quote:Zimmerman hasn't been below average in the field. He's been bad
What's more impactful-- Hitting .344 with 18 bombs and an OPS of 1.029 and being below average defensively. Or batting .298 with 12 HR and an OPS of .908 while being the 9th best fielder at your position?
And if you're top 10 in the field at short while also providing a wOBA near 390 and a wRC+ over 140 and an IS0 over 200 while getting on base over 40% of the time? Yeeaaa that's really valuable
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:32 pm to BenDover
quote:
Let me ask you this. What's more impactful-- Hitting .344 with 18 bombs and an OPS of 1.029 and being below average defensively. Or batting .298 with 12 HR and an OPS of .908 while being the 9th best fielder at your position?
I could do the same thing you just did: would you rather have a top 15 percentile defensive player in the league with a .403 OBP or a bottom 5 percentile defensive player with a .384 OBP. Never of us lied, but both slanted the argument one way and left off other valuable pieces of information.
This post was edited on 6/27/17 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:47 pm to WestCoastAg
It's a shame Keuchel had the injury, because he was on Cy Young pace this year.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:48 pm to RoscoeHarper
Would have been really hard to beat out sale
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:51 pm to WestCoastAg
Depends on if you use rWar or fWAR. fWAR loves Sale the most and rWar favored Keuchel until his injury
Posted on 6/27/17 at 1:57 pm to The Seaward
quote:
would you rather have a top 15 percentile defensive player in the league with a .403 OBP or a bottom 5 percentile defensive player with a .384 OBP.
at using OBP. But to entertain your point, there's a 19 point gap between the two in OBP. There's a 121 point gap in OPS. What's more valuable, walks or walks + extra base hits? Especially considering Seager doesn't steal bags to turn those walks into being in scoring position. 
Posted on 6/27/17 at 2:02 pm to The Seaward
Its hard to make good MVP arguments for anyone else, particularly if you are going to make it stat based rather than impact based-- there's only one other marginal candidate that really even registers on the radar right now.
The best impact based argument for anyone else, would be Sano for AL MVP. Yes, Judge has made the Yankees better-- but let's face it, they finished 5 games out of the playoff chase last year. The Twins were *30* games out of the playoff chase last year.
If they play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Twins will end up posting a 24 win improvement over last year, mostly on the strength of Sano's bat in the middle of that order.
It isn't like Sano is blessed with a ton of help, pitching, or protection, either. Really, once you get past Santana, no other Twin has been killing it this first half-- his oRAR (includes defense, hitting, even baserunning) rating, if you like advanced stats, is worth more than the next two Twins combined.
The best impact based argument for anyone else, would be Sano for AL MVP. Yes, Judge has made the Yankees better-- but let's face it, they finished 5 games out of the playoff chase last year. The Twins were *30* games out of the playoff chase last year.
If they play .500 ball the rest of the way, the Twins will end up posting a 24 win improvement over last year, mostly on the strength of Sano's bat in the middle of that order.
It isn't like Sano is blessed with a ton of help, pitching, or protection, either. Really, once you get past Santana, no other Twin has been killing it this first half-- his oRAR (includes defense, hitting, even baserunning) rating, if you like advanced stats, is worth more than the next two Twins combined.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 2:04 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
I think that would go to Corey Seager
Please explain?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 2:07 pm to BenDover
quote:
at using OBP.
You used batting average and you're laughing at OBP?
Posted on 6/27/17 at 2:19 pm to The Seaward
I'm laughing at using OBP rather than OPS when the latter literally has OBP built into it.
Posted on 6/27/17 at 2:21 pm to Lee to Toliver
quote:
Fred Lynn, in 1974.
I wasn't '74, Jeff Burroughs, won the MVP that year. It must have been in '75 because he played against the Reds that year in the WS.
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