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Posted on 6/14/17 at 11:48 am to VADawg
quote:
Rewritten, Jordan was 6/13 and LeBron was 8/12.
More proof that both Jordan and LeBron had to wait for thier competition to age itself out of the league to win. And Lebron can still only consistently win the East.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:17 pm to danfraz
quote:Aren't you getting wound up about other's opinions?
Why does other peoples opinions about LeBron get so many wound up about nothing????
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:33 pm to gobuxgo5
quote:
I'm not penalizing Jordan, it's more than 1 on 1 ball. Jordan's teams were always superior to his finals opponents. 1 player no matter how good doesn't make that true unless his pieces around him are also really good.
Lebron has been an underdog many times in finals
So in other words, I'm not penalizing him but I'm penalizing him
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:34 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
Jordan being Jordan has nothing to do with the skill level of his opponents. Go look at his opponents and try to find anyone as good as Durant.
Magic Johnson, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:36 pm to Northshore Saint
Bingo......... lebron lovers do zero homework.....
Posted on 6/14/17 at 1:56 pm to Northshore Saint
quote:KD at his peak is better than all of those guys except for Magic. You can argue Barkley, but I'd take KD. He's clearly better than Malone/Payton/Drexler at their peaks.
Magic Johnson, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler
Now ask yourself, did that list of guys you named also have the reigning 2 time MVP and greatest shooter ever, the guy who will likely win DPOY, and another all time great shooter?
Probably not. Again, the argument that LeBron has played better teams in the Finals is really not even argument, everyone should be able to recognize that as basically fact.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 2:20 pm to shel311
quote:
Now ask yourself, did that list of guys you named also have the reigning 2 time MVP and greatest shooter ever, the guy who will likely win DPOY, and another all time great shooter?
What exactly are you arguing here? That a team that beat Lebron in 5 games is better than any team MJ beat?
Ok great...where does that get us?
quote:
Again, the argument that LeBron has played better teams in the Finals is really not even argument, everyone should be able to recognize that as basically fact.
Its definitely debatable unless you're arguing that this years Warriors are better then anything Jordan faced.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 6/14/17 at 2:27 pm to tduecen
That's been my point for some time now. If LeBron was 3-0 in the finals, all the anti-Bron guys would say "but he's only been to the finals 3 times in 14 seasons!"
Posted on 6/14/17 at 2:32 pm to Weagle25
quote:Following the replies, it gets us to realize how dumb the logic was in this post:
What exactly are you arguing here? That a team that beat Lebron in 5 games is better than any team MJ beat?
Ok great...where does that get us?
quote:Every team MJ ever played on, even the 72 win team, would be an underdog against this GS team, which again, disproves that quoted post.
Jordan was never the underdog because he was Jordan.
quote:How? Eye test is the only way, and even that would be laughed at by anyone who follows hoops. By any measurable, and has been shown on this board and by the dudes who make a living look at this stuff, LeBron has played 5 teams better than the best team MJ played. I'd love to hear the argument that MJ has played better teams in the Finals than LeBron.
Its definitely debatable
quote:
unless you're arguing that this years Warriors are better then anything Jordan faced.
1. If the argument is teams played in the Finals, why would you NOT include 2017 GS?
2. Even if you want to exclude them for some odd reason, LeBron has still faced multiple other teams clearly better than any team MJ faced.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 2:40 pm to shel311
quote:
Every team MJ ever played on, even the 72 win team, would be an underdog against this GS team, which again, disproves that quoted post.
Alright I can go along with that.
quote:
How? Eye test is the only way, and even that would be laughed at by anyone who follows hoops. By any measurable, and has been shown on this board and by the dudes who make a living look at this stuff, LeBron has played 5 teams better than the best team MJ played. I'd love to hear the argument that MJ has played better teams in the Finals than LeBron.
I don't really feel like arguing that much today so I'll just say those who say it's not debatable are too caught up in the moment.
quote:
1. If the argument is teams played in the Finals, why would you NOT include 2017 GS?
I'm not saying don't include them. That's the only one you were talking about. I wasn't sure why but you explained that.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 3:22 pm to Weagle25
quote:
Well that's great and all but getting to the Finals doesn't get you anything.
Well, it does get you at least 4 more games.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 3:24 pm to Northshore Saint
quote:
Magic Johnson, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Charles Barkley, Clyde Drexler
Durant is better than all of these guys. Drexler and Payton don't even belong in the conversation.
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 6/14/17 at 3:25 pm to VADawg
quote:
5 (arguably 6, depending on your opinion of the 2007 Spurs) of LeBron's Finals opponents have been better than any of Jordan's Finals opponents but that'll be dismissed by the 90s nostalgia crowd.
It's not dismissed but the salary cap and the way teams are constructed now is so different. Back then having 2 studs was impressive and 3 studs never played together. Now, teams who win titles typically have 3 (4 with GS) all-star caliber players.
Edit: The concentration of the best players is low right now. GS and Cleveland had 7 of the top 20 players in the NBA
This post was edited on 6/14/17 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:03 pm to Weagle25
quote:Both Spurs teams, 2015 and 2016 GS...all statistically better than any team MJ faced. The only argument otherwise is just your "feeling" if you will.
I'm not saying don't include them. That's the only one you were talking about. I wasn't sure why but you explained that.
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:04 pm to Goldrush25
quote:All but Magic, you mean.
Durant is better than all of these guys
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:08 pm to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Jordan was never the underdog because he was Jordan.
lebron was the underdog in the 2007 finals, and these past 3 finals to the warriors. i would bet that all 4 of those teams would have been the best team that MJ ever faced
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:10 pm to WestCoastAg
So all of them were better than the showtime Lakers, the Celtics, the Bad Boys and the 2001 Lakers?
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:12 pm to cubsfan5150
i apologize for not adding "in the finals" to the end of my statement. but i think these past two warrior teams are the two greatest ever sooooo yea, ill take those two over those
Posted on 6/14/17 at 4:16 pm to WestCoastAg
All good... It's your opinion,which is something that people don't seem to understand around here.
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