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Message
re: Timeline: Stunning details in Penn State fraternity pledge death (Update: charges dropped)
Posted on 5/11/17 at 9:40 am to Muriel
Posted on 5/11/17 at 9:40 am to Muriel
quote:
But they knew the dude was hammered and had fallen down but there was no way to know he fractured his skull and his spleen exploded. For all they knew he was just drunk as piss and fell down. Obviously we as adults can sit here and say someone should have called 911, but anyone expecting a bunch of drunk college aged bros to call 911 in that situation is not dealing in reality, IMO.
It's sad and shameful, but I agree with this.
1
Posted on 5/11/17 at 9:46 am to NawlinsTiger9
I'd like to think someone with any slight bit of intelligence would realize someone falling down a flight of stairs onto their head is not good. To say "how should they have known he had a fractured skull?" Is a ridiculous excuse in my opinion
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:01 am to monkeybutt
As a mom of a son about to graduate high school in 15 days (YIKES!) and is already being contacted by fraternities and who plans to pledge, this shite gives me the cold chills.
I am going to make sure he reads this. Hopefully, the small silver lining in this is that ALL other fraternities on ALL campuses use this awful incident as an example so that this can never happen again.
And, no, I had never heard or thought of using a backpack to keep a sleeping drunk from choking on their own vomit, And, yes, that is a genius idea and I think speaks to this particular fraternity being at expert levels of drinking and shenanigans.
I am going to make sure he reads this. Hopefully, the small silver lining in this is that ALL other fraternities on ALL campuses use this awful incident as an example so that this can never happen again.
And, no, I had never heard or thought of using a backpack to keep a sleeping drunk from choking on their own vomit, And, yes, that is a genius idea and I think speaks to this particular fraternity being at expert levels of drinking and shenanigans.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:28 am to Darth Aranda
quote:
It's amazing seeing all these frat douches coming in here preaching "oh he's just a pledge bro, it's not like they knew him well". frick all of you
"Ed Osteen" was never in a frat.
He is just trolling.Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:39 am to BamaChick
quote:
As a mom of a son about to graduate high school in 15 days (YIKES!) and is already being contacted by fraternities and who plans to pledge, this shite gives me the cold chills.
I am going to make sure he reads this. Hopefully, the small silver lining in this is that ALL other fraternities on ALL campuses use this awful incident as an example so that this can never happen again.
And, no, I had never heard or thought of using a backpack to keep a sleeping drunk from choking on their own vomit, And, yes, that is a genius idea and I think speaks to this particular fraternity being at expert levels of drinking and shenanigans.
Not making excuses for this, because it is inexcusable--there's a level of indifference on display in this incident that borders on sociopathy, and it seems to be prevalent in some in the millenial generation--for all the snowflake accusations, they can be incredibly callous to one another.
But, part of what's also going on is that this has all been has been driven underground. When I was in school, we had regular parties with alcohol served. The housemother was there. Sometimes the Greek Affairs dean or whatever his title was would show up and have a beer. It was all aboveboard, nobody was trying to hide anything, and it had a moderating effect on some of this stuff.
Universities are so afraid of alcohol liability that they've done their best to drive it off campus and into the shadows. It makes their insurance carriers happy, but it has a negative effect on student safety, which is ostensibly the University's priority.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:42 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:54 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
cept 9/10 stories like this involve a frat
Of course they do, because that's what makes the news. What was the story at Duke, oh yeah Duke Lacrosse. I can google countless other college organizations that weren't frats, but stories like this happen every weekend across the country you just don't hear about it because its only a group of friends with no organization to make the headline.
Do you not think other college students get dui's, get alcohol poisoning, use date rape drugs, etc.?
I never once went to a party outside of a frat house that had sober drivers and security. I had a friend literally saved from another frat party because he was a douche and hit on the wrong girl in the wrong way, about 10 frat guys started to kick him on the ground and the security grabbed him and threw him out. I've seen crap like that happen on non frat parties also and it ended up badly.
This kind of stuff is unacceptable, but acting like it only goes on at Frat parties is laughably ignorant. You think young military guys don't do this stuff? College athletes? Haha, it happens all over.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:56 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:00 am to monkeybutt
quote:
If there was anyone remotely sober around that was mildly responsibl
quote:
Did you even read the account?
quote:
, but another member shoved him into a wall and told him to leave. The brother confronts the chapter's vice president, who also dismisses his concerns.
Again, where does it say anyone was sober and responsible? It says they approached the VP who dismissed it, that's all. That's BS and the VP should have criminal charges most likely because that party is on his and the presidents shoulders to be controlled. I've never once dismissed that.
I'm dismissing the fact that this type of thing is acceptable to most frats, it is not. I can tell you 15 years ago when I was in we'd discuss safety routinely and sober drivers. We would offer $50 off dues for anyone that would sober drive from 10-2pm if we didn't have pledges at the time.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:07 am to baldona
quote:Please tell me what Duke lacrosse did?
What was the story at Duke, oh yeah Duke Lacrosse
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:12 am to East Coast Band
quote:
yet "understandable due to "kids being kids"",
They aren't kids, and it's only "understandable" because their parents failed to raise them.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:23 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Not making excuses for this, because it is inexcusable--there's a level of indifference on display in this incident that borders on sociopathy, and it seems to be prevalent in some in the millenial generation--for all the snowflake accusations, they can be incredibly callous to one another.
These bystander incidents are not exclusive or even any more prevalent in the millennial's. Go look up the Kitty Genovese story. Although the number of witnesses was exaggerated there were still several people aware of what was going on. Additionally, there have been many studies of the bystander effect.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 11:25 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:31 am to lsupride87
quote:
What was the story at Duke, oh yeah Duke Lacrosse
Please tell me what Duke lacrosse did?
Nothing but stupid college guy stuff like pay for a prostitute, but that's my point. That story is literally not a story unless it was Duke Lacrosse, if it was just 5-10 random college guys its nothing. We hear about all these Frat instances not because its the only time it happens or 90% of the time, but because that is what makes it a headline and therefore a story.
This story is disgusting, but acting like a bunch of drunk idiot college guys walking over an injured drunk friend all night only happens at a Frat house or with Frat guys is ignorant. 18-24 year old college guys do a lot of dumb, unsafe, and frankly illegal stuff every weekend.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:35 am to BamaChick
quote:
genius idea and I think speaks to this particular fraternity being at expert levels of drinking and shenanigans.
Yeah. They're real geniuses. They watched their shitfaced friend nosedive down a flight of stairs and were only concerned enough to call an ambulance when he had lost enough blood for his extremities to be cold (at which point at a minimum he was going to have severe brain damage).
This wasn't some friend who drank too much, and everyone is sitting around discussing whether or not it warrants a stomach pump. This is obvious. Internal bleeding is extraordinarily painful, as is a skull fracture. These kids are in no way geniuses. They're criminally stupid.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:59 am to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
Kitty Genovese story
I remember watching a movie about this when I was a kid. Repulsed the heck out of me and I had no understanding of what the hell was going on.
We had similar disasters happen a million years ago when I was in college but I never saw that level of indifference. Heck, we took a guy to the emergency room because he tripped and smashed his head into the corner of a desk and instantly had an enormous hematoma. Folks were worried about getting in trouble but the guys's health superseded that fear.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 12:02 pm to baldona
quote:
Nothing but stupid college guy stuff like pay for a prostitute, but that's my point. That story is literally not a story unless it was Duke Lacrosse, if it was just 5-10 random college guys its nothing. We hear about all these Frat instances not because its the only time it happens or 90% of the time, but because that is what makes it a headline and therefore a story.
This story is disgusting, but acting like a bunch of drunk idiot college guys walking over an injured drunk friend all night only happens at a Frat house or with Frat guys is ignorant. 18-24 year old college guys do a lot of dumb, unsafe, and frankly illegal stuff every weekend.
How many are forced to do it or lose their friends and brothers?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 1:24 pm to lsu2006
quote:
Did you actually read the sequence of events? I've never done anything even remotely approaching as fricked up and reckless as these fricking murderers.
Yea I did, and I'm sure your 19 year old wasted self would have immediately been able to diagnose the difference between this and the 100s of other times a fraternity "brother" has passed out drunk in the house.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 1:45 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
How many are forced to do it or lose their friends and brothers?
I'm not sure you know what the word force means, because no one is forced to join a frat or continue through all the shenanigans. Hell half of a pledges time can be trying to get them to quit. It can be a very demented part of college I agree, but forced is a strong word.
I mean geez, they must be one step under a North Korean prison camp making this guy take 5 shots in a row. They may have even forced him to take a date to a football game or a formal, goodness that sounds horrible.
Football two a days were also 'forced' and guys sadly die every year. Should we ban football from college campus? This was disgusting, it's potential criminal, and it should not have happened. But the idea that all Greek organizations participate in that kind of stupidity is wrong.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 1:50 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Yea I did, and I'm sure your 19 year old wasted self would have immediately been able to diagnose the difference between this and the 100s of other times a fraternity "brother" has passed out drunk in the house.
It seems like you're glossing over the fact they knew he fell down a flight of stairs and hit his head. Yea, I'd say there's a difference between this situation and the 100s of times someone passed out drunk on the couch.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:00 pm to monkeybutt
At first glance in this case I thought:
"Man, I'm sure they just thought he was wasted and passed out. That happened hundreds of times in college with my friends and I. We would've never known something was wrong."
Then I read the details about them seeing him fall really badly down the stairs, discussing with each other how to treat his physical injuries, googling how to treat head injuries, then in the morning when sober trying to plan a cover-up.
These kids are fricked. This is not normal behavior for fraternities because it was just a drunk passing out. It was a dude getting very injured and they knew about it and didn't care.
"Man, I'm sure they just thought he was wasted and passed out. That happened hundreds of times in college with my friends and I. We would've never known something was wrong."
Then I read the details about them seeing him fall really badly down the stairs, discussing with each other how to treat his physical injuries, googling how to treat head injuries, then in the morning when sober trying to plan a cover-up.
These kids are fricked. This is not normal behavior for fraternities because it was just a drunk passing out. It was a dude getting very injured and they knew about it and didn't care.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:01 pm to The Baker
What a bunch of frat losers.
Anyone that would do that to you and not help you will never ever be your life long friend.
As much as all those who hazed them deserve prison time, I think I would have put up a fight and used some judgment and walk away if it got to a certain point and they were making me do something like that.
Penn St is a f'ed up place!
This is as worse as the Sandusky stuff.
Penn St is not a safe place
Anyone that would do that to you and not help you will never ever be your life long friend.
As much as all those who hazed them deserve prison time, I think I would have put up a fight and used some judgment and walk away if it got to a certain point and they were making me do something like that.
Penn St is a f'ed up place!
This is as worse as the Sandusky stuff.
Penn St is not a safe place
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:03 pm to BamaChick
My cousin died during a pledge activity at LSU for drinking too much water. 18 year old brains are still developing and they make bad choices. Certainly talk to your son but don't assume he's safe if he doesn't join a fraternity or doesn't drink. Our kids have to learn to be responsible for their own safety when they move out of our homes.
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