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re: Timeline: Stunning details in Penn State fraternity pledge death (Update: charges dropped)
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:03 pm to nicholastiger
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:03 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
Penn St is a f'ed up place!
This is as worse as the Sandusky stuff.
Woah now.
quote:
As much as all those who hazed them deserve prison time, I think I would have put up a fight and used some judgment and walk away if it got to a certain point and they were making me do something like that.
Chugging drinks/shots?
1
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:06 pm to LSUTANGERINE
quote:
These bystander incidents are not exclusive or even any more prevalent in the millennial's. Go look up the Kitty Genovese story. Although the number of witnesses was exaggerated there were still several people aware of what was going on. Additionally, there have been many studies of the bystander effect.
Or read Richard Zimbardo's The Lucifer Effect. It's a very sobering book that deals in how situational and environmental factors play a much larger role on our decision-making and morality than we'd like to admit.
Basically, in situations like these, everyone always says "I would never have done that." But they really don't know until they've actually been in that situation.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:07 pm to East Coast Band
What about some self-responsibility from this kid?
Most of us here were in a fraternity. We held our alcohol like men.
But alas, I know the age of men is quickly falling into ancient history...
Most of us here were in a fraternity. We held our alcohol like men.
But alas, I know the age of men is quickly falling into ancient history...
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:09 pm to East Coast Band
I got up to speed reading a lot on this yesterday. Such a sad situation.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:10 pm to RFK
quote:
What about some self-responsibility from this kid?
Most of us here were in a fraternity. We held our alcohol like men.
But alas, I know the age of men is quickly falling into ancient history...
Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself for making a post like this with the way this kid died. Should've held his alcohol?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:10 pm to RFK
If you read the description it looks like he might have been trying to leave the situation but obviously couldn't on his own.
Sad!
Sad!
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:11 pm to RFK
quote:
What about some self-responsibility from this kid?
This is a "wrong place, wrong time" situation. Thousands of kids pledge fraterinities every year where they proceed to get plastered, and their fraternity houses have stairs. You'd like to think if you're joining a brotherhood that they would actually act like brothers and drag you to the hospital. One of those guys had to have had a sober girlfriend where they could drag him to the hospital and at least make up some lie they'd be caught for eventually.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:12 pm to RFK
quote:
What about some self-responsibility from this kid?
Ehhhh...I'm all for personal responsibility, but in this particular situation it's a weak argument.
He's a pledge going through a pledgeship "ritual" where he's been ordered to drink alcohol by a majority of guys in authority positions. And his peers are going through it as well.
Very VERY few people would have the courage go against the grain in a situation like that.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:12 pm to TheCaterpillar
That is pretty terrible.
I'm not going to make excuses for the horrible decisions people in that fraternity made, but I think one of the contributing factors is the university's stance on alcohol incidents at fraternities. Most likely, the university would have kicked them off if they took him to the hospital. That doesn't excuse their extreme negligence, but I don't think it is a good thing for the school to put policies in place that discourage kids from doing the right thing.
Universities really need to just stop sticking their heads in the sand in regards to fraternities. They know what goes on in them. If they want to do something about it, then just ban fraternities from campus. Putting these rules in place does nothing but push this activity underground and push kids towards covering things up.
I'm not going to make excuses for the horrible decisions people in that fraternity made, but I think one of the contributing factors is the university's stance on alcohol incidents at fraternities. Most likely, the university would have kicked them off if they took him to the hospital. That doesn't excuse their extreme negligence, but I don't think it is a good thing for the school to put policies in place that discourage kids from doing the right thing.
Universities really need to just stop sticking their heads in the sand in regards to fraternities. They know what goes on in them. If they want to do something about it, then just ban fraternities from campus. Putting these rules in place does nothing but push this activity underground and push kids towards covering things up.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:14 pm to East Coast Band
Fraternities are pretty stupid
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:16 pm to DumpsterFire
quote:
Universities really need to just stop sticking their heads in the sand in regards to fraternities. They know what goes on in them. If they want to do something about it, then just ban fraternities from campus. Putting these rules in place does nothing but push this activity underground and push kids towards covering things up.
I was proud of UGA when they instituted a "good Samaritan" policy.
Basically, if someone who's underage calls 911 to help a friend who's dangerously intoxicated, they are both given immunity from being arrested.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:16 pm to J Murdah
Some "brothers" they were. I never understood why fraternity boys all get hard-ons for each other, but will beat the shite out of you if you cant chug a beer.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:17 pm to J Murdah
Frats are by far for the biggest losers of society
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:17 pm to DumpsterFire
quote:
If they want to do something about it, then just ban fraternities from campus
Banning fraternities is not going to eliminate underage/binge drinking and similar situations like this from happening.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:20 pm to hiltacular
They will just take it all off campus somewhere which might make it worse.
But at least the universities are removing the liability from campus if it is not affiliated with the school itself.
Penn St will have some serious liability in this case as well as the national frat chapter.
But at least the universities are removing the liability from campus if it is not affiliated with the school itself.
Penn St will have some serious liability in this case as well as the national frat chapter.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:20 pm to J Murdah
Some of the texts between them during and after is really what made my blood boil.
Link to Article
I'm posting the pics of what looks like texts on the screens of phones for easier reading.
After the death:
Like really, caring if the house gets shut down when theirs fresh blood on you and your bro's hands? Nah.
I also read through this yesterday: (PAGE 40 starts talking about the fall and the cover-up)
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=3705264-PSU-Hazing-FINAL-Charges-and-Presentment
Link to Article
I'm posting the pics of what looks like texts on the screens of phones for easier reading.
After the death:
Like really, caring if the house gets shut down when theirs fresh blood on you and your bro's hands? Nah.
I also read through this yesterday: (PAGE 40 starts talking about the fall and the cover-up)
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=3705264-PSU-Hazing-FINAL-Charges-and-Presentment
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:22 pm to hiltacular
quote:
Banning fraternities is not going to eliminate underage/binge drinking and similar situations like this from happening.
I agree, but I think allowing fraternities (knowing what goes on there) and then making super strict rules regarding alcohol incidents leads to situations like this. I don't think there should ever be a rule that discourages taking someone to the hospital.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:25 pm to J Murdah
These guys are assholes and deserve what's coming.
Aside from these guys being scum, i do think if you didn't criminalize kids that are college age drinking that it possibly could have helped even these degenerates lend a hand. Why criminalize something the vast majority of 18s worldwide do. It would have been less likely that these idiots didn't call for help.
Aside from these guys being scum, i do think if you didn't criminalize kids that are college age drinking that it possibly could have helped even these degenerates lend a hand. Why criminalize something the vast majority of 18s worldwide do. It would have been less likely that these idiots didn't call for help.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:27 pm to Rox
quote:
If need be, just tell them what I told you guys, found him behind an away bar the next morning at around 10 a.m., and he was freezing-cold, but we decided to call 911 instantly, because the kid's health was paramount.
This is so fricked up. I want to see people read all these texts and then come defend these guys.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 2:30 pm to Rox
quote:
Some of the texts between them during and after is really what made my blood boil.
Those texts plus the videos showing people just stepping over the kid and not helping are what breaks my heart thinking about his parents when they read those texts and watch those videos. I can't even imagine having to see evidence of just how little my kid's life meant to those who were supposed to be his friends
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